[petsc-dev] issue with v3.21.5 build

Jeffrey Hyman hymanjd at gmail.com
Tue Apr 29 09:35:55 CDT 2025 

Made it a little further. Then some new clang errors.

clang: error: unknown argument: '-mfp16-format=ieee'

I really appreciate the help, Matt.

Jeffrey


On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 10:30 AM Matthew Knepley <knepley at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 10:27 AM Jeffrey Hyman <hymanjd at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Oh, I remember that now. conda used to be so helpful. It always gets me
>> when I try to rebuild.
>>
>> I removed it and got stuck in hdf5 again. Anaconda is gone, but it looks
>> lille mpif90 was not found.
>>
>> configure:7444: mpif90 -c  -ffree-line-length-none -ffree-line-length-0
>> -Wno-lto-type-mismatch -O3 -Wno-unused-function -fallow-argument-mismatch
>> -fallow-argument-mismatch  conftest.f90 >&5
>> ./configure: line 2482: mpif90: command not found
>>
>>
>> should I try --download-mpich=
>> https://urldefense.us/v3/__https://www.mpich.org/static/downloads/4.3.0/mpich-4.3.0.tar.gz__;!!G_uCfscf7eWS!cQEDqLRYXdMQK_L9VNAp2xGxbxDW1Yv4QGG_b5aVjgzeHFpGNo1E6uKa5Y3Qs4AX8FE6ETF983odofM3SoX5$ . that
>> Satish suggested?
>>
>
> Yes, since now it seems you do not have an MPI.
>
>   THanks,
>
>     Matt
>
>
>> J
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 10:12 AM Matthew Knepley <knepley at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 10:09 AM Jeffrey Hyman <hymanjd at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> did 1 - 4, now I'm getting an error configuring hdf5. configure.log
>>>> attached,
>>>>
>>>
>>> I forgot to look at your environment. This is what was causing your MPI
>>> issues. Always turn off all Anaconda stuff in the env when building PETSc.
>>>
>>> configure:7444: mpif90 -c  -ffree-line-length-none -ffree-line-length-0
>>> -Wno-lto-type-mismatch -O3 -Wno-unused-function -fallow-argument-mismatch
>>> -fallow-argument-mismatch -x f95 conftest.f90 >&5
>>>
>>> /Users/hymanjd/opt/anaconda3/bin/mpif90: line 392:
>>> x86_64-apple-darwin13.4.0-gfortran: command not found
>>>
>>> configure:7444: $? = 127
>>>
>>> configure: failed program was:
>>>
>>> |       program main
>>>
>>> |
>>>
>>> |       end
>>>
>>> configure:7454: result: unknown
>>>
>>> configure:7457: error: Fortran could not compile .f90 files
>>>
>>> It has ceased to be a force for good.
>>>
>>>   Thanks,
>>>
>>>      Matt
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 9:41 AM Matthew Knepley <knepley at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 9:28 AM Jeffrey Hyman <hymanjd at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I know he and Richard have it on the to do list. But I'll encourage
>>>>>> them at a meeting tomorrow. : )
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That file for the make to work, but the check failed. Looks like MPI
>>>>>> might have gotten crossed up in all the installs?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I would
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) Preserve the reconfigure-***.py and gmakegen.py
>>>>>
>>>>> 2) Remove the whole $PETSC_DIR
>>>>>
>>>>> 3) Get rid of the preinstalled OpenMPI you have. It is usually
>>>>> somewhat broken and not helping.
>>>>>
>>>>> 4) Reclone and rebuild
>>>>>
>>>>>   THanks,
>>>>>
>>>>>      Matt
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks, Matt! Feels close.
>>>>>> J
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 9:20 AM Matthew Knepley <knepley at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 9:17 AM Jeffrey Hyman <hymanjd at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, Pflotran hasn't been updated to use 3.22 yet. So I'm
>>>>>>>> stuck with 3.21.5. Can I hack the python path?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tell Glenn to get in gear :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think you can just get this file:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://urldefense.us/v3/__https://gitlab.com/petsc/petsc/-__;!!G_uCfscf7eWS!cQEDqLRYXdMQK_L9VNAp2xGxbxDW1Yv4QGG_b5aVjgzeHFpGNo1E6uKa5Y3Qs4AX8FE6ETF983odobbP4Txr$ 
>>>>>>>  /blob/release-3.22/config/gmakegen.py?ref_type=heads
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and put it in $PETSC_DIR/config/gmakegen.py
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Finger crossed,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    Matt
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> J
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 9:14 AM Matthew Knepley <knepley at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 9:08 AM Jeffrey Hyman <hymanjd at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This configure worked
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ./configure --COPTFLAGS='-O3' --CXXOPTFLAGS='-O3'
>>>>>>>>>> --FOPTFLAGS='-O3 -Wno-unused-function -fallow-argument-mismatch'
>>>>>>>>>> --with-debugging=no --download-mpich=yes --download-hdf5=yes
>>>>>>>>>> --download-hdf5-fortran-bindings=yes --download-fblaslapack=yes
>>>>>>>>>> --download-metis=yes --download-parmetis=yes  --download-cmake=
>>>>>>>>>> https://urldefense.us/v3/__https://gitlab.kitware.com/cmake/cmake/-/archive/v3.31.7/cmake-v3.31.7.tar.gz__;!!G_uCfscf7eWS!cQEDqLRYXdMQK_L9VNAp2xGxbxDW1Yv4QGG_b5aVjgzeHFpGNo1E6uKa5Y3Qs4AX8FE6ETF983odoQsyBkUA$ 
>>>>>>>>>> \
>>>>>>>>>> --download-cmake-cc=clang --download-cmake-cxx=clang++
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> but then it failed on the make. configure and make attached.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We could backport a check for this. The Python is newer than the
>>>>>>>>> release 3.21.5, so we are using something that went away. If you use 3.22
>>>>>>>>> or higher this is fixed.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>   Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>      Matt
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks again for the help. Much appreciated.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 8:53 AM Jeffrey Hyman <hymanjd at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I updated brew llvm to the latest clang
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Homebrew clang version 20.1.3
>>>>>>>>>>> Target: arm64-apple-darwin24.3.0
>>>>>>>>>>> Thread model: posix
>>>>>>>>>>> InstalledDir: /opt/homebrew/Cellar/llvm/20.1.3/bin
>>>>>>>>>>> Configuration file:
>>>>>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/etc/clang/arm64-apple-darwin24.cfg
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> and that seems happier with gfortran. I'm guessing that updating
>>>>>>>>>>> my mac OS to sequoia mixed stuff up.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 8:24 AM Jeffrey Hyman <hymanjd at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I had tried with clang as well, but was getting this error.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Looks like something with the arm64. Maybe remove and reinstall gfortran?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> =============================================================================================
>>>>>>>>>>>> TESTING: checkFortranNameMangling from
>>>>>>>>>>>> config.compilers(config/BuildSystem/config/compilers.py:78
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *********************************************************************************************
>>>>>>>>>>>>            UNABLE to CONFIGURE with GIVEN OPTIONS (see
>>>>>>>>>>>> configure.log for details):
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>   Unknown Fortran name mangling: Are you sure the C and Fortran
>>>>>>>>>>>> compilers are compatible?
>>>>>>>>>>>>   Perhaps one is 64-bit and one is 32-bit?
>>>>>>>>>>>>   See https://urldefense.us/v3/__https://petsc.org/release/faq/*macos-gfortran__;Iw!!G_uCfscf7eWS!cQEDqLRYXdMQK_L9VNAp2xGxbxDW1Yv4QGG_b5aVjgzeHFpGNo1E6uKa5Y3Qs4AX8FE6ETF983odoVCtSerS$ 
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *********************************************************************************************
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 7:56 AM Matthew Knepley <
>>>>>>>>>>>> knepley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 10:02 PM Satish Balay <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> balay.anl at fastmail.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you have for:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clang --version
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Try:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ./configure COPTFLAGS=-O3 CXXOPTFLAGS=-O3 FOPTFLAGS="-O3
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Wno-unused-function -fallow-argument-mismatch" \
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --with-debugging=no --download-mpich=
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://urldefense.us/v3/__https://www.mpich.org/static/downloads/4.3.0/mpich-4.3.0.tar.gz__;!!G_uCfscf7eWS!cQEDqLRYXdMQK_L9VNAp2xGxbxDW1Yv4QGG_b5aVjgzeHFpGNo1E6uKa5Y3Qs4AX8FE6ETF983odofM3SoX5$ 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --download-hdf5=yes --with-hdf5-fortran-bindings=yes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --download-fblaslapack=yes \
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --download-metis=yes --download-parmetis=yes \
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CC=gcc-14 CXX=g++-14 FC=gfortran-14 --download-make=yes \
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --download-cmake=
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://urldefense.us/v3/__https://gitlab.kitware.com/cmake/cmake/-/archive/v3.31.7/cmake-v3.31.7.tar.gz__;!!G_uCfscf7eWS!cQEDqLRYXdMQK_L9VNAp2xGxbxDW1Yv4QGG_b5aVjgzeHFpGNo1E6uKa5Y3Qs4AX8FE6ETF983odoQsyBkUA$ 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --download-cmake-cc=clang --download-cmake-cxx=clang++
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You could use clang. Your g++ is broken:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Error when bootstrapping CMake:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Problem while running make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Log of errors:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Users/hymanjd/src/petsc/arch-darwin-c-debug/externalpackages/cmake-3.29.0/Bootstrap.cmk/cmake_bootstrap.log
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> stdout:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In file included from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/gcc/14.2.0_1/include/c++/14/ext/string_conversions.h:43,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                  from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/gcc/14.2.0_1/include/c++/14/bits/basic_string.h:4154,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                  from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/gcc/14.2.0_1/include/c++/14/string:54,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                  from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Users/hymanjd/src/petsc/arch-darwin-c-debug/externalpackages/cmake-3.29.0/Source/cmTimestamp.h:9,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                  from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Users/hymanjd/src/petsc/arch-darwin-c-debug/externalpackages/cmake-3.29.0/Source/cmTimestamp.cxx:15:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/gcc/14.2.0_1/include/c++/14/cstdlib:141:11:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> error: 'at_quick_exit' has not been declared in '::'
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>   141 |   using ::at_quick_exit;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>       |           ^~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> /opt/homebrew/Cellar/gcc/14.2.0_1/include/c++/14/cstdlib:164:11:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> error: 'quick_exit' has not been declared in '::'
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>   164 |   using ::quick_exit;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>       |           ^~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> make: *** [cmTimestamp.o] Error 1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> make: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>                       Error running configure on CMAKE: Could
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not execute "['./configure
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --prefix=/Users/hymanjd/src/petsc/arch-darwin-c-debug --parallel=8
>>>>>>>>>>>>> CC="/opt/homebrew/bin/gcc-14" CXX="/opt/homebrew/bin/g++-14" --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -DCMAKE_USE_OPENSSL=OFF']":
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anything that includes <string> looks like it will break.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>   Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>      Matt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Satish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 28 Apr 2025, Jeffrey Hyman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Thanks, I'll give it a spin and let you know how it goes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > JDH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 8:43 PM Matthew Knepley <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knepley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 8:34 PM Jeffrey Hyman <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hymanjd at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> I am trying to build v3.21.5 to use with pflotran. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> running into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> issues with cmake. configure log attached.  Any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suggestions?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > The documentation could be clearer here. We cannot use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the PETSc compilers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > to build CMake since it explicitly does not want MPI.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thus you need to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > specify them yourself. That means you would need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >   --download-cmake-cc=/opt/homebrew/bin/gcc-14
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > --download-cmake-cxx=/opt/homebrew/bin/g++-14
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >   Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >      Matt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> Thanks for the help,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> Jeffrey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > What most experimenters take for granted before they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> begin their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > experiments is infinitely more interesting than any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> results to which their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > experiments lead.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > -- Norbert Wiener
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://urldefense.us/v3/__https://www.cse.buffalo.edu/*knepley/__;fg!!G_uCfscf7eWS!bZa6EMKsRCbKBAnduL8Vva4vRPvbjUsz_v4OKJW8-c8D8gQcN4fZPfrAaQfZ37j1kQzigfg-TVDeQNOczHyI$
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://urldefense.us/v3/__http://www.cse.buffalo.edu/*knepley/__;fg!!G_uCfscf7eWS!bZa6EMKsRCbKBAnduL8Vva4vRPvbjUsz_v4OKJW8-c8D8gQcN4fZPfrAaQfZ37j1kQzigfg-TVDeQKP18rKz$
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What most experimenters take for granted before they begin
>>>>>>>>>>>>> their experiments is infinitely more interesting than any results to which
>>>>>>>>>>>>> their experiments lead.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- Norbert Wiener
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://urldefense.us/v3/__https://www.cse.buffalo.edu/*knepley/__;fg!!G_uCfscf7eWS!cQEDqLRYXdMQK_L9VNAp2xGxbxDW1Yv4QGG_b5aVjgzeHFpGNo1E6uKa5Y3Qs4AX8FE6ETF983odoe0eT_Jw$ 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://urldefense.us/v3/__http://www.cse.buffalo.edu/*knepley/__;fg!!G_uCfscf7eWS!cQEDqLRYXdMQK_L9VNAp2xGxbxDW1Yv4QGG_b5aVjgzeHFpGNo1E6uKa5Y3Qs4AX8FE6ETF983odoW-Kfboe$ >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> What most experimenters take for granted before they begin their
>>>>>>>>> experiments is infinitely more interesting than any results to which their
>>>>>>>>> experiments lead.
>>>>>>>>> -- Norbert Wiener
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://urldefense.us/v3/__https://www.cse.buffalo.edu/*knepley/__;fg!!G_uCfscf7eWS!cQEDqLRYXdMQK_L9VNAp2xGxbxDW1Yv4QGG_b5aVjgzeHFpGNo1E6uKa5Y3Qs4AX8FE6ETF983odoe0eT_Jw$ 
>>>>>>>>> <https://urldefense.us/v3/__http://www.cse.buffalo.edu/*knepley/__;fg!!G_uCfscf7eWS!cQEDqLRYXdMQK_L9VNAp2xGxbxDW1Yv4QGG_b5aVjgzeHFpGNo1E6uKa5Y3Qs4AX8FE6ETF983odoW-Kfboe$ >
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> What most experimenters take for granted before they begin their
>>>>>>> experiments is infinitely more interesting than any results to which their
>>>>>>> experiments lead.
>>>>>>> -- Norbert Wiener
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://urldefense.us/v3/__https://www.cse.buffalo.edu/*knepley/__;fg!!G_uCfscf7eWS!cQEDqLRYXdMQK_L9VNAp2xGxbxDW1Yv4QGG_b5aVjgzeHFpGNo1E6uKa5Y3Qs4AX8FE6ETF983odoe0eT_Jw$ 
>>>>>>> <https://urldefense.us/v3/__http://www.cse.buffalo.edu/*knepley/__;fg!!G_uCfscf7eWS!cQEDqLRYXdMQK_L9VNAp2xGxbxDW1Yv4QGG_b5aVjgzeHFpGNo1E6uKa5Y3Qs4AX8FE6ETF983odoW-Kfboe$ >
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> What most experimenters take for granted before they begin their
>>>>> experiments is infinitely more interesting than any results to which their
>>>>> experiments lead.
>>>>> -- Norbert Wiener
>>>>>
>>>>> https://urldefense.us/v3/__https://www.cse.buffalo.edu/*knepley/__;fg!!G_uCfscf7eWS!cQEDqLRYXdMQK_L9VNAp2xGxbxDW1Yv4QGG_b5aVjgzeHFpGNo1E6uKa5Y3Qs4AX8FE6ETF983odoe0eT_Jw$ 
>>>>> <https://urldefense.us/v3/__http://www.cse.buffalo.edu/*knepley/__;fg!!G_uCfscf7eWS!cQEDqLRYXdMQK_L9VNAp2xGxbxDW1Yv4QGG_b5aVjgzeHFpGNo1E6uKa5Y3Qs4AX8FE6ETF983odoW-Kfboe$ >
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> What most experimenters take for granted before they begin their
>>> experiments is infinitely more interesting than any results to which their
>>> experiments lead.
>>> -- Norbert Wiener
>>>
>>> https://urldefense.us/v3/__https://www.cse.buffalo.edu/*knepley/__;fg!!G_uCfscf7eWS!cQEDqLRYXdMQK_L9VNAp2xGxbxDW1Yv4QGG_b5aVjgzeHFpGNo1E6uKa5Y3Qs4AX8FE6ETF983odoe0eT_Jw$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.us/v3/__http://www.cse.buffalo.edu/*knepley/__;fg!!G_uCfscf7eWS!cQEDqLRYXdMQK_L9VNAp2xGxbxDW1Yv4QGG_b5aVjgzeHFpGNo1E6uKa5Y3Qs4AX8FE6ETF983odoW-Kfboe$ >
>>>
>>
>
> --
> What most experimenters take for granted before they begin their
> experiments is infinitely more interesting than any results to which their
> experiments lead.
> -- Norbert Wiener
>
> https://urldefense.us/v3/__https://www.cse.buffalo.edu/*knepley/__;fg!!G_uCfscf7eWS!cQEDqLRYXdMQK_L9VNAp2xGxbxDW1Yv4QGG_b5aVjgzeHFpGNo1E6uKa5Y3Qs4AX8FE6ETF983odoe0eT_Jw$ 
> <https://urldefense.us/v3/__http://www.cse.buffalo.edu/*knepley/__;fg!!G_uCfscf7eWS!cQEDqLRYXdMQK_L9VNAp2xGxbxDW1Yv4QGG_b5aVjgzeHFpGNo1E6uKa5Y3Qs4AX8FE6ETF983odoW-Kfboe$ >
>
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