[Swift-devel] swift-on-ec2

Tue May 15 16:22:55 CDT 2007

Hi,
See below:

Tim Freeman wrote:
> On Tue, 15 May 2007 16:20:03 +0000 (GMT)
> Ben Clifford <benc at hawaga.org.uk> wrote:
>
>   
>> Ian asked about this elsewhere, but its perhaps interesting for 
>> swift-devel people to look at the questions too.
>>
>> On Tue, 15 May 2007, Ian Foster wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> Dear All:
>>>       
>>                                                                                 
>>     
>>> I asked Kate if she and Tim could look into creating VM images that 
>>> would allow us to run Swift applications on Amazon EC2. I think Kate is 
>>> meeting with Ioan about this on Thursday (?).
>>>       
>>                                                                                 
>>     
>>> One issue that I thought would be good to discuss is what we'd want in 
>>> that VM image. Perhaps this is obvious to the rest of you, but it isn't 
>>> to me. A few thoughts:
>>>       
>>> * I'm assuming that we want to run "workers" on EC2 nodes, and have the
>>> "task dispatch" logic run on some external frontend system outside EC2.
>>>       
>>> * I would think that we want to use Falkon to do the task dispatch. If so,
>>> we need a Falkon executor on each VM, configured to check in with the Falkon
>>> dispatcher. (Alternatively, we could use, say, SGE: in that case, we would
>>> want an SGE agent.)
>>>       
>>> *  We need a way of getting data to and from the worker nodes. Do we want to
>>> run a file system across the EC2 nodes and the external frontend node? That
>>> seems rather inefficient. Other options?
>>>       
>>> * Should we preload the application code on each EC2 node?
>>>       
>> Here's a couple of approaches:
>>
>>  1) swift regards all the EC2 nodes that we are paying for as a single 
>>     site.
>>
>> Something like falkon handles all the task dispatch and worker node 
>> management. I don't know what that looks like at the moment in Falkon, but 
>> the interface for Swift to send jobs into Falkon sounds pretty 
>> straightforward and shouldn't need changing.
>>     
>
> So if I understand, here there would be no gateway+LRM but each EC2 node +
> Falkon would need a port open to receive tasks?  Or does each node pull down
> instructions OK from behind a firewall?
>   
Falkon supports both polling and notifications.  To use notifications, 
there needs to be an open port on the worker :(
> Is there a latency problem with running each node as an indepdent task
> receiver with the dispatcher off-site from EC2?  I would think it would be
> better to put the queues to fill with tasks on EC2 so it can more quickly get
> the task going when a node is done with a previous task (I may be missing some
> nuances here with respect to Falkon, don't know much about this yet!). 
>   
We have run the Falkon dispatcher at UChicago and workers at ANL without 
any issues, so it can easily tolerate a few ms of latency.  We haven't 
tried it across 10s of ms of latency links, but my instinct says that if 
you have enough workers, you might be able to hide the latency.  We'd 
have to experiment with it to see what happens.  We could potentially do 
some experiments between SDSC and ANL over a 50+ ms link, and see what 
difference in throughputs we get.

Ioan
> If a gateway node is desired, this option sounds a lot like the GRAM+LRM
> situation we use on VMs with the workspace service and will soon use on EC2 via
> the workspace EC2 gateway we're implementing.  Start up one gateway node and
> then add compute nodes which dynamically join the pool, they are pointed to the
> GRAM node.
>
>   
>> All the nodes in a site are required by our site model to have a shared 
>> filesystem - we've talked about removing it, but I think that is still the 
>> case and if so, isn't going to change soon. 
>>     
>
> Setting up a shared filesystem in this environment is akin to setting up the
> compute nodes to join an LRM pool.  The VMs can communicate over the private
> network at EC2, you can instruct EC2 to let all the nodes be open to each other
> (while simultaneously keeping a separate policy of blocking ports from being
> open from the internet and other people's EC2 nodes).  The non-file-serving
> nodes would simply need to know the private address of the filesystem server
> (unless you are using a fancier network file system than NFS-style ones). 
>
> For background: every VM on EC2 currently gets a public address -- NAT'd to a
> private address which is actually what the VM's one NIC is configured with.
> There is a facility to open/forward specific network ports on the public
> address to each VM either via a group policy or on a VM by VM basis.
>
> [...] 
>   
>> Amazon also has a storage cloud, alongside its compute cloud. I know very 
>> little about that and have never thought about how it would fit into the 
>> above (if at all). Maybe someone else knows more.
>>     
>
> A VM template on EC2 is called an AMI which stands for Amazon Machine Image.
> This is just a packaging thing but what it mostly means is that the VM is
> stored on S3 and also registered into the EC2 system.
>
> When starting an instance of an AMI, the file is copied from S3 to the
> hypervisor node (what we call propagation in the workspace service).  After it
> is used, this file is deleted (an option in the workspace service but there is
> also an option to save it back with any changes).  
>
> So the VMs are stored in S3 but anything that happens on them after being
> started is lost unless you manually do something about it.
>
> As for free scratch space, you get a good amount per node, 140G.  But the node
> could go down at any moment just like a physical resource.
>
> To harness S3 for safely persisting any data (or if you need more space) you
> would need to actually run S3 clients on the VMs when they are run on EC2.  You
> could alternatively mirror data between nodes assuming that all would not go
> down at once. 
>
> The good thing is that you do not pay transfer costs between S3 and EC2 if you
> chose to use S3 for big storage, you would only pay the "housing fees" so to
> speak. 
>
> Tim
> _______________________________________________
> Swift-devel mailing list
> Swift-devel at ci.uchicago.edu
> http://mail.ci.uchicago.edu/mailman/listinfo/swift-devel
>
>   

-- 
============================================
Ioan Raicu
Ph.D. Student
============================================
Distributed Systems Laboratory
Computer Science Department
University of Chicago
1100 E. 58th Street, Ryerson Hall
Chicago, IL 60637
============================================
Email: iraicu at cs.uchicago.edu
Web:   http://www.cs.uchicago.edu/~iraicu
       http://dsl.cs.uchicago.edu/
============================================
============================================