[petsc-dev] Pushing non-working code

[Karl Rupp]

Hi Matt,

On 02/03/2013 11:37 AM, Matthew Knepley wrote:
>
>     +1 for Sean. I'm tired of carefully writing down the points I'm
>     trying to make, carefully (re-)reading through what I've written,
>     and then just to get a generic 'how does this relate to XYZ'-type of
>     answer without really addressing anything I've raised.
>
>
> I find it tiring to continually make points that someone does not want
> to hear, and thus dismissed without recognizing
> that a point was made.

We would like to hear/read more about why you think this is indeed a 
point. Examples in this thread:

---
'I don't think there is any
evidence that it increases productivity, and quite a lot that it is 
rather marginal on that score while increasing development
costs. I do not see any effect from these kind of pushes. Does that mean 
my workflow is more robust, and we should force
it on everyone else?'

*Why* do you see it? I would love to see that at least nailed down to an 
example from 'practice'.

---
'I can quantify the losses from the changed you propose, which is all I 
need to do. There are no "gains" from a baseline. This is
a point I have made multiple times. Changes must be justified.'

*Why* are there no gains? The sentence is a bold statement. If you 
require us to quantify everything, you should do so with your own 
statements as well.

---
'Its more work for me. Clearly you are asking me to do something I do 
not currently do. A loss.'

*Why* is it a loss? Just because it's more work for you does not mean 
it's more work overall.

Matt, it's not that we don't want to consider your points. The thing is 
that we want your justifications for the bold statements you (sometimes) 
make just in the same way you require us to justify or provide evidence 
for our own statements. I certainly agree with your principle of 'we 
don't need to change things just for the sake of changing', yet I don't 
want this to become an universal dictum which makes us as inflexible as 
a steel beam with respect to changes of our environment/community.

Best regards,
Karli