[AG-TECH] HD on AG
Gurcharan S. Khanna
gurcharan.khanna at rit.edu
Mon Dec 15 00:22:28 CST 2008
Douglas Kosovic wrote:
> Hi Gurcharan,
>
>> Really? Wow. You mean I can get vic to do uncompressed HD just like
>> that? I've spent months trying to get UltraGrid to work on Macs (I
>> got it working on colleagues machines but not mine!). But the goal
>> was always to integrate it with the AG later. If this could be done
>> now..........hmmmmmm....that would be the answer I've been waiting for.
>
> MacOS X vic can grab uncompressed video frames from the Blackmagic
> HDMI capture card and then encode using whatever codec is selected.
>
> For uncompressed HD transsmission, I modified vic to add OptIPortal
> SAGE support but there were a number of overheads which resulted in
> only 21fps at ~700Mbps.
>
> I wrote a simple stand-alone MacOS X SAGE application that was
> achieving 25fps 1080i at ~930Mbps from a 25fps 1080i HDMI camcorder.
>
>> So, can somebody kind do this quickly and let me try it out? I could
>> eventually get someone to do this but it would be from scratch in
>> terms of their experience with this software.
>>
>> If this works it would be so great and save so many hours of work for
>> me.
>
> Did you want a modified MacOS X vic executable with 'large' set to
> 1920x1080?
oh yes, please. that would be a wonderful Xmas present!
uncompressed HD in vic, yes. we can talk about compression later :-)
thanks,
-gurcharan
>
>
> Cheers,
> Doug
>
>> Douglas Kosovic wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>>>>> I, too, am extremely interested in vic supporting HD formats,
>>>>>>> (including uncompressed!) One of the issues is the encoding
>>>>>>> latency problem. Not sure there's a nice low latency encoding
>>>>>>> solution out there yet. Alternatively, we might look at cheap
>>>>>>> hardware encoders as the answer or HDMI cards to take the input
>>>>>>> from the camera.
>>>>>>> Can vic be made to take the output of, say, the BlackMagic
>>>>>>> Design HDMI card on a Mac?
>>>
>>> MacOS X UCL vic works out of the box with the BlackMagic Design HDMI
>>> capture card, but gets scalled down to 640x480 for the large capture
>>> option.
>>>
>>> A quick hack to add 1980x1080 support is to modify the following
>>> width & height lines in video/grabber-macosx.cpp :
>>> switch (decimate_) {
>>> case 1: // full-sized
>>> width_ = SP601_NTSC_WIDTH;
>>> height_ = SP601_NTSC_HEIGHT;
>>>
>>> to:
>>> width_ = 1920;
>>> height_ = 1080;
>>>
>>> Windows UCL vic on the other hand crashes with the BlackMagic Design
>>> HDMI capture card as it currently doesn't support the BlackMagic YUV
>>> colorspace.
>>>
>>> I wouldn't mind adding support for USB HD camcorders that support
>>> UVC (USB Video Class) H.264 streaming over USB, but I currently
>>> don't have access to one. Note: Not all USB based camcorders support
>>> UVC (e.g. Sony Hanycams).
>>>
>>>>>>> I am currently using AGDV under windows but would like to move
>>>>>>> to linux and use the HDV/DV linux vic for the DV part; i don't
>>>>>>> think it's encoding the HDV, just accepting it as input from the
>>>>>>> camera already encoded??? [chris?]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is possible to just packetise the compressed data from a
>>>>>> camera, though as Chris points out it tends to have quite high
>>>>>> latency. That is why the ultragrid and derivatives used
>>>>>> uncompressed HD as their sources. VIC doesn't currently support
>>>>>> mpeg2 nor does support packetisation of an existing compressed
>>>>>> mpeg2 stream.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> wait, i thought chris' vic supported HDV, which i assume is mp4???
>>>>>
>>>> AFAIK most cameras support HDV - which is closely related to MPEG-2:
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDV#HDV_720p
>>>
>>> Mostly just the DV firewire based camcorders, the harddisk USB based
>>> ones are now mostly AVCHD (MPEG-4 AVC/H.264).
>>>
>>>>> also, how hard/easy would it be for vic to support packetizing
>>>>> uncompressed HD?
>>>>>
>>>> Not that hard - one needs to read the [RTP and codec] specs and
>>>> code it up - or borrow someone else's....
>>>>
>>>> Piers.
>>>>
>>>>> :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> -gurcharan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Piers
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My ideal would be to encode the presenter's laptop output and
>>>>>>> deliver that as just another video stream along side the
>>>>>>> presenter's video and the audience video and have autoplace lay
>>>>>>> them out nicely in a framed window, a la Adobe Connect or
>>>>>>> similar products, so the presenter, the slides, and additional
>>>>>>> commentary could be nicely recorded for later videoon demand
>>>>>>> playback.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just my opinion (and need),
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -gurcharan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Piers O'Hanlon wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Derek,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In principle VIC should be able encode and decode HD video -
>>>>>>>> using one of the codecs that support such resolutions e.g.
>>>>>>>> H.264 or h261as.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One needs to modify some of the configuration code in VIC to
>>>>>>>> allow selection of larger resolutions (ie HD one needs
>>>>>>>> something from 720p (1024x720) upwards). And of course an HD
>>>>>>>> source is necessary. We don't currently have access to any HD
>>>>>>>> kit so haven't had a chance to work on it but anyone is welcome
>>>>>>>> to try!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Piers
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2008/10/22 Vine, Derek A <Derek.Vine at usd.edu>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am doing some research to spec. up a new AG room, and the
>>>>>>>>> group with the money is interested in HD video. I see that
>>>>>>>>> The University of Queensland has an HDV/DV VIC for Linux based
>>>>>>>>> systems already, but we would like to stay with Windows.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I was just wondering what kind of time frame I can give them
>>>>>>>>> as to when HD will be supported in AG on Windows. In
>>>>>>>>> particular, an HD VIC that will take its video from a capture
>>>>>>>>> card with an HD-SDI input, like the one attached in the PDF.
>>>
>>> I didn't see the PDF, what colorspace does it support? If it's YUV
>>> 4:2:0, it would probably work with this vic:
>>>
>>> http://www.vislab.uq.edu.au/ag3/windows/vic-20081121.zip
>>>
>>> (which contained a fix for 480i DV white line artifacts)
>>>
>>> Anyway, I started working on adding support for more colorspaces to
>>> the Windows code a few weeks ago and I might get back to working on
>>> the code soon.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thank you in advance for your help.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Derek Vine
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Communication Network Specialist
>>>>>>>>> The University of South Dakota
>>>>>>>>> 414 East Clark Street
>>>>>>>>> Vermillion, SD 57069
>>>>>>>>> (605) 677-8215
>>>>>>>>> dvine at usd.edu
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> -------------------------
>> Gurcharan S. Khanna, Ph.D.
>> Director of Research Computing
>> Office of the Vice President for Research
>> http://rc.rit.edu
>>
>> Assistant Research Professor, Ph.D. Program
>> Golisano College of Computing and Information Sciences
>> http://people.rit.edu/gskpop
>>
>> Director, Interactive Collaboration Environments Laboratory,
>> Center for the Advancing the Study of Cyberinfrastructure
>> http://icelab.rit.edu
>> ---
>> Rochester Institute of Technology
>> 1 Lomb Memorial Drive
>> Rochester, New York 14623-5603
>> Phone: 585-475-7504 ~ Cell: 585-451-8370
>> Email: gurcharan.khanna at rit.edu
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Douglas Kosovic wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>>>>> I, too, am extremely interested in vic supporting HD formats,
>>>>>>> (including uncompressed!) One of the issues is the encoding
>>>>>>> latency problem. Not sure there's a nice low latency encoding
>>>>>>> solution out there yet. Alternatively, we might look at cheap
>>>>>>> hardware encoders as the answer or HDMI cards to take the input
>>>>>>> from the camera.
>>>>>>> Can vic be made to take the output of, say, the BlackMagic
>>>>>>> Design HDMI card on a Mac?
>>>
>>> MacOS X UCL vic works out of the box with the BlackMagic Design HDMI
>>> capture card, but gets scalled down to 640x480 for the large capture
>>> option.
>>>
>>> A quick hack to add 1980x1080 support is to modify the following
>>> width & height lines in video/grabber-macosx.cpp :
>>> switch (decimate_) {
>>> case 1: // full-sized
>>> width_ = SP601_NTSC_WIDTH;
>>> height_ = SP601_NTSC_HEIGHT;
>>>
>>> to:
>>> width_ = 1920;
>>> height_ = 1080;
>>>
>>> Windows UCL vic on the other hand crashes with the BlackMagic Design
>>> HDMI capture card as it currently doesn't support the BlackMagic YUV
>>> colorspace.
>>>
>>> I wouldn't mind adding support for USB HD camcorders that support
>>> UVC (USB Video Class) H.264 streaming over USB, but I currently
>>> don't have access to one. Note: Not all USB based camcorders support
>>> UVC (e.g. Sony Hanycams).
>>>
>>>>>>> I am currently using AGDV under windows but would like to move
>>>>>>> to linux and use the HDV/DV linux vic for the DV part; i don't
>>>>>>> think it's encoding the HDV, just accepting it as input from the
>>>>>>> camera already encoded??? [chris?]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is possible to just packetise the compressed data from a
>>>>>> camera, though as Chris points out it tends to have quite high
>>>>>> latency. That is why the ultragrid and derivatives used
>>>>>> uncompressed HD as their sources. VIC doesn't currently support
>>>>>> mpeg2 nor does support packetisation of an existing compressed
>>>>>> mpeg2 stream.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> wait, i thought chris' vic supported HDV, which i assume is mp4???
>>>>>
>>>> AFAIK most cameras support HDV - which is closely related to MPEG-2:
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDV#HDV_720p
>>>
>>> Mostly just the DV firewire based camcorders, the harddisk USB based
>>> ones are now mostly AVCHD (MPEG-4 AVC/H.264).
>>>
>>>>> also, how hard/easy would it be for vic to support packetizing
>>>>> uncompressed HD?
>>>>>
>>>> Not that hard - one needs to read the [RTP and codec] specs and
>>>> code it up - or borrow someone else's....
>>>>
>>>> Piers.
>>>>
>>>>> :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> -gurcharan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Piers
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My ideal would be to encode the presenter's laptop output and
>>>>>>> deliver that as just another video stream along side the
>>>>>>> presenter's video and the audience video and have autoplace lay
>>>>>>> them out nicely in a framed window, a la Adobe Connect or
>>>>>>> similar products, so the presenter, the slides, and additional
>>>>>>> commentary could be nicely recorded for later videoon demand
>>>>>>> playback.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just my opinion (and need),
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -gurcharan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Piers O'Hanlon wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Derek,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In principle VIC should be able encode and decode HD video -
>>>>>>>> using one of the codecs that support such resolutions e.g.
>>>>>>>> H.264 or h261as.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One needs to modify some of the configuration code in VIC to
>>>>>>>> allow selection of larger resolutions (ie HD one needs
>>>>>>>> something from 720p (1024x720) upwards). And of course an HD
>>>>>>>> source is necessary. We don't currently have access to any HD
>>>>>>>> kit so haven't had a chance to work on it but anyone is welcome
>>>>>>>> to try!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Piers
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2008/10/22 Vine, Derek A <Derek.Vine at usd.edu>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am doing some research to spec. up a new AG room, and the
>>>>>>>>> group with the money is interested in HD video. I see that
>>>>>>>>> The University of Queensland has an HDV/DV VIC for Linux based
>>>>>>>>> systems already, but we would like to stay with Windows.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I was just wondering what kind of time frame I can give them
>>>>>>>>> as to when HD will be supported in AG on Windows. In
>>>>>>>>> particular, an HD VIC that will take its video from a capture
>>>>>>>>> card with an HD-SDI input, like the one attached in the PDF.
>>>
>>> I didn't see the PDF, what colorspace does it support? If it's YUV
>>> 4:2:0, it would probably work with this vic:
>>>
>>> http://www.vislab.uq.edu.au/ag3/windows/vic-20081121.zip
>>>
>>> (which contained a fix for 480i DV white line artifacts)
>>>
>>> Anyway, I started working on adding support for more colorspaces to
>>> the Windows code a few weeks ago and I might get back to working on
>>> the code soon.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thank you in advance for your help.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Derek Vine
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Communication Network Specialist
>>>>>>>>> The University of South Dakota
>>>>>>>>> 414 East Clark Street
>>>>>>>>> Vermillion, SD 57069
>>>>>>>>> (605) 677-8215
>>>>>>>>> dvine at usd.edu
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> -------------------------
>> Gurcharan S. Khanna, Ph.D.
>> Director of Research Computing
>> Office of the Vice President for Research
>> http://rc.rit.edu
>>
>> Assistant Research Professor, Ph.D. Program
>> Golisano College of Computing and Information Sciences
>> http://people.rit.edu/gskpop
>>
>> Director, Interactive Collaboration Environments Laboratory,
>> Center for the Advancing the Study of Cyberinfrastructure
>> http://icelab.rit.edu
>> ---
>> Rochester Institute of Technology
>> 1 Lomb Memorial Drive
>> Rochester, New York 14623-5603
>> Phone: 585-475-7504 ~ Cell: 585-451-8370
>> Email: gurcharan.khanna at rit.edu
>>
>>
>
>
--
-------------------------
Gurcharan S. Khanna, Ph.D.
Director of Research Computing
Office of the Vice President for Research
http://rc.rit.edu
Assistant Research Professor, Ph.D. Program
Golisano College of Computing and Information Sciences
http://people.rit.edu/gskpop
Director, Interactive Collaboration Environments Laboratory,
Center for the Advancing the Study of Cyberinfrastructure
http://icelab.rit.edu
---
Rochester Institute of Technology
1 Lomb Memorial Drive
Rochester, New York 14623-5603
Phone: 585-475-7504 ~ Cell: 585-451-8370
Email: gurcharan.khanna at rit.edu
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