[AG-TECH] RE: **ACE-grid** ACE Collaboration services - A discussion document

Brian Corrie brian.corrie at newmic.com
Tue Sep 2 11:23:24 CDT 2003


Hi Jason,

I just talked to Ivan and the Argonne folks said any time other than Sept 10
is good. Sept 11 at 1:00 Central (11:00 PST if my conversion is correct 8-)
is fine here.

Brian




> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Brooke [mailto:John.Brooke at man.ac.uk]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 2:16 AM
> To: Jason Leigh
> Cc: Brian Corrie; 'Ace'; ag-tech at mcs.anl.gov
> Subject: RE: [AG-TECH] RE: **ACE-grid** ACE Collaboration services - A
> discussion document
> 
> 
> Hi Jason,
>        These times are fine for Manchester.
> 
> On Mon, 1 Sep 2003, Jason Leigh wrote:
> 
> > Hi
> > In nailing down a date and time for the ACE collab services 
> AG meeting,
> > we tentatively had Sept 10, 11, 12.
> >
> > John Brooke indicated that Sept 10 would be bad.
> >
> > I can do Sept 11 but not till 1pm Central time.
> > 	1pm Central
> > 	2pm East Coast
> > 	7pm in England
> > 	8pm in Germany
> >
> > Otherwise we can try for Sept 17 at 11am Central time.
> >
> > Any suggestions welcome. If I don't hear anything I'll 
> assume Sept 11 at
> > 1pm is fine for everyone. :>
> >
> > Jason
> >  ----------------
> > Jason Leigh, PhD
> > Associate Professor, Computer Science Department
> > spiff at evl.uic.edu              Electronic Visualization Lab 
> (M/C 152)
> > EVL Phone (312) 996-3002         University of Illinois at Chicago
> > EVL FAX   (312) 413-7585         851 S. Morgan St. Room 1120 SEO
> > http://www.evl.uic.edu/spiff     Chicago, IL 60607-7053
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-ag-tech at mcs.anl.gov
> > > [mailto:owner-ag-tech at mcs.anl.gov] On Behalf Of Brian Corrie
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 12:08 PM
> > > To: Ace; ag-tech at mcs.anl.gov
> > > Subject: [AG-TECH] RE: **ACE-grid** ACE Collaboration
> > > services - A discussion document
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello all,
> > >
> > > As Jason has said (see email below), we are organizing an AG
> > > meeting to
> > > discuss ACE collaboration services, why they are important,
> > > and how they
> > > should be described. This is a continutation of the "ACE 
> collaboration
> > > services" discussion that we had at GGF in Seattle. As a
> > > point of discussion,
> > > here is a brief position statement from my point of view...
> > > This is based on
> > > the GGF discussion from Seattle (powerpoint provided).
> > > 
> http://calder.ncsa.uiuc.edu/ACE-grid/2003-06-24_GGF8/GGF8-corrie.ppt
> > >
> > > We are planning on having a meeting either September 10, 11,
> > > or 12. Please
> > > let us know if you are interested in participating and if so which
> > > dates/times are best.
> > >
> > > I have cross posted this to the ag-tech mailing list as I
> > > think there will be
> > > people there that are interested in this area that may not be
> > > on the ACE
> > > list...
> > >
> > > >From our point of view, providing a succesful collaboration
> > > requires a number
> > > of steps. One has to:
> > >
> > > 1) Understand the collaboration task being undertaken
> > > 2) Understand the needs required to accomplish the task
> > > 3) Determine the collaboration services required to meet 
> those needs
> > > 4) Determine how to deliver those services most effectively
> > > on the technology
> > > available to the user.
> > >
> > > My goal in moving this discussion forward is to define what
> > > we mean by a
> > > collaboration service so that we can perform the mapping from
> > > needs (2 above)
> > > to services (3 above) to technologies (4 above).
> > >
> > > To accomplish the mapping from need to service the services
> > > have to be well
> > > defined. They should be standards based and not 
> application based if
> > > possible. We need to be able to identify what services meet
> > > the needs of the
> > > collaboration task and be able to combine them in a very
> > > flexible manner to
> > > accomplish that task. That means that services need to work
> > > together to
> > > accomplish an overall goal that can be quite complex. To
> > > determine how to do
> > > that one needs to know alot about the "capabilities" of the
> > > services. It is
> > > probably necessary to classify services into groups that
> > > satisfy a given need
> > > (classes might be audio, video, shared presentation,
> > > application sharing,
> > > floor control, turn taking, visualization, ...). For example,
> > > a specific
> > > collaboration task may NEED audio, video, and shared
> > > presentation. There may
> > > be a number of services that provide a solution for each 
> need. Vic,
> > > netmeeting, realvideo, and quicktime all satisfy the need to
> > > have video. The
> > > NEED has certain requirements (interactive video) and
> > > services have certain
> > > capabilities (vic is interactive, realvideo is not). If one
> > > knows the needs
> > > of the task and the capabilities of the services we can map
> > > from need to
> > > service to come up with a set of services that satisfy 
> the needs of a
> > > collaboration (vic satisfies the interactive video need while
> > > realvideo does
> > > not). Thus far we are talking at an abstract level that 
> is focused on
> > > accomplishing the task at hand as succesfully as possible. We
> > > call this
> > > "Quality of Experience" or QoE.
> > >
> > > Once a set of services is identified for a task, we need 
> to map those
> > > services onto a set of technologies to actually deliver the
> > > collaboration. To
> > > do this, we need to know both the resources required for the
> > > services and the
> > > capabilities of the devices that the services are going to be
> > > running on.
> > > Running vic at 256Kb/s h261 codec requires 256kb/s bandwidth
> > > per video stream
> > > and 50%CPU + 10% per video stream (I know, % CPU is not the
> > > best metric in
> > > the world 8-). Machine A is connected to the other
> > > collaborators over the
> > > research network at 10 Mbps and has a video capture
> > > capability. If we know
> > > this information for each service in a collaboration and each
> > > machine being
> > > used we can make intelligent aggregate decisions at the task
> > > level about what
> > > machines should run which services and more importantly when
> > > and how the
> > > system should compromise on specific needs to make the
> > > collaboration as high
> > > quality as possible (degrade the video quality rather than
> > > have poor audio in
> > > the collaboration).
> > >
> > > To perform any of these mappings it is critical to define what a
> > > collaboration service is and what its capabilities and
> > > attributes are. More
> > > importantly, if we can describe service capabilities in a 
> well defined
> > > manner, then a true service model can be built in which
> > > services can be used
> > > across multiple systems but decisions can be made about the
> > > collaboration
> > > task at the task level.
> > >
> > > So what are the questions we need to ask (from the powerpoint)?
> > >
> > > How do we classify collaboration services (or do we need to)?
> > > How do we describe collaboration services?
> > > 	- What class of service is it?
> > > 	- What are its capabilities (what can it do)?
> > > 	- How does it do it (protocols, standards)?
> > > 	- What does it require (memory, bandwidth, CPU)?
> > > How do we register collaboration services (registration and
> > > discovery)?
> > > How do we instantiate services (service creation)?
> > >
> > > That is our view of collaboration services and how they
> > > should be described.
> > > I hope that it is relatively clear. I would welcome any
> > > discussion on this
> > > topic and I hope to see some of you at the AG meeting 
> next month...
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Brian
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Jason Leigh [mailto:spiff at evl.uic.edu]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 5:37 PM
> > > > To: 'Ace'
> > > > Subject: RE: **ACE-grid** ACE Collaboration services
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Looks like there is a conflict with the AG2 tutorial. How
> > > > about Sept 10,
> > > > 11 or 12?
> > > >
> > > > Jason
> > > >
> > > >  ----------------
> > > > Jason Leigh, PhD
> > > > Associate Professor, Computer Science Department
> > > > spiff at evl.uic.edu              Electronic Visualization Lab
> > > (M/C 152)
> > > > EVL Phone (312) 996-3002         University of Illinois 
> at Chicago
> > > > EVL FAX   (312) 413-7585         851 S. Morgan St. Room 1120 SEO
> > > > http://www.evl.uic.edu/spiff     Chicago, IL 60607-7053
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: owner-ace-grid at gridforum.org
> > > > > [mailto:owner-ace-grid at gridforum.org] On Behalf Of Jason Leigh
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 3:19 PM
> > > > > To: Ace
> > > > > Subject: **ACE-grid** ACE Collaboration services
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi
> > > > > Brian and I are planning to hold an AG meeting to 
> elaborate on ACE
> > > > > collaboration services that was discussed at GGF8. For those
> > > > > interested,
> > > > > please indicate your prefered dates for the meeting: Sept 3
> > > > or 4 or 5.
> > > > >
> > > > > Here are notes from the last discussion:
> > > > >
> > > http://calder.ncsa.uiuc.edu/ACE-grid/2003-06-24_GGF8/GGF8-corr
> > ie.ppt
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Jason
> > > >
> > > >  ----------------
> > > > Jason Leigh, PhD
> > > > Associate Professor, Computer Science Department
> > > > spiff at evl.uic.edu              Electronic Visualization Lab
> > > (M/C 152)
> > > > EVL Phone (312) 996-3002         University of Illinois 
> at Chicago
> > > > EVL FAX   (312) 413-7585         851 S. Morgan St. Room 1120 SEO
> > > > http://www.evl.uic.edu/spiff     Chicago, IL 60607-7053
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> 
> 



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