[AG-TECH] features of 2.2 and future roadmap? (fwd)

Ivan R. Judson judson at mcs.anl.gov
Fri May 28 12:16:11 CDT 2004


Good comments, I don't think we can address the first one in this document,
but the second one we really can and should address (about data in the
venue).

--Ivan 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ag-dev at mcs.anl.gov 
> [mailto:owner-ag-dev at mcs.anl.gov] On Behalf Of Susanne Lefvert
> Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:29 AM
> To: ag-dev at mcs.anl.gov
> Subject: Re: [AG-TECH] features of 2.2 and future roadmap? (fwd)
> 
> 
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:40:08 -0700
> From: Brian Corrie <bcorrie at sfu.ca>
> To: Susanne Lefvert <lefvert at mcs.anl.gov>
> Subject: Re: [AG-TECH] features of 2.2 and future roadmap? (fwd)
> 
> Hi Susanne,
> 
> I have read through and the document and it looks pretty 
> good. You have done a nice job of capturing what one would 
> normally do with a Shared App in the class structure.
> 
> My main problem (and the complaint I have about the 2.1.2 
> environment) is that it is unclear what one might be able to 
> do OUTSIDE of the scope of what is described in the manual. 
> For example, what if I want my Shared App to do something 
> that the Client class does not encapsulate. 
> Or what if I want to extend it in some form. There does not 
> seem to be a mechanism for me to try and understand what is 
> possible with my shared app interacting with the shared app 
> space, the venue itself, and the surrounding environment etc. 
> This is not really a criticism of the document itself but how 
> one writing a shared app might interact with other parts of 
> the system beyond the a simple example.
> 
> A couple of examples in particular jump to mind. Many shared 
> apps are wrappers that start other applications (like the VNC 
> app). It is my understanding that when registering an app one 
> can specify files on the files line of the app file, where 
> one of the files is the application itself (VNC.exe). This 
> keeps all of the relevant files together. When one starts the 
> shared application it needs to know where the executable is 
> but it is unclear what environment the system is in. The VNC 
> shared app seems to assume that the vnc application is in the 
> same directory as the py file.... Can one determine where 
> these helper apps are through any of the venue or SharedApp 
> interfaces?
> 
> Another possibility is interacting with Data that is stored 
> in the venue. For example, I might want to put a powerpoint 
> in the venue and have my shared powerpoint app ask the venue 
> for all its data and ask the user to choose a file from the 
> venue to use instead of specifying a powerpoint file explicitly...
> 
> In some ways this is outside of the scope of the manual you 
> have written, but this is where I think I would run into 
> problems on how to go beyond the simplest of shared application.
> 
> I like the manual, it gives the reader a way of quickly 
> writing a shared app. As described above, I would like to see 
> something that provides more context to the surrounding 
> environment so it is more clear how to interact with other 
> pieces that exist in the venue. Maybe that belongs in another 
> document???
> 
> I have a shared app that I might try and convert over to the 
> new model over the next week or so. If I do I will have some 
> more concrete feedback on specifics...
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Brian
> 
> 
> Susanne Lefvert wrote:
> 
> > Brian,
> > 
> > Feel free to pass it around, I just think it is great to 
> get feedback. 
> > Also, I am planning on giving the manual to our editor and 
> updating it 
> > to reflect the latest code sometime next week, so now is a 
> good time 
> > to give suggestions.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Susanne
> > 
> > On Tue, 18 May 2004, Brian Corrie wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >>Hi Susanne,
> >>
> >>I will take a look at it this week and give you some 
> feedback... I am 
> >>sure it will be helpful. Do you mind if I pass it on to some of my 
> >>colleagues who would also be interested?
> >>
> >>Cheers,
> >>
> >>Brian
> >>
> >>
> >>Susanne Lefvert wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Hello Brian,
> >>>
> >>>I am glad to hear that you would like to review the 
> programmer's manual.  
> >>>You can find a copy attached to this email and I have also 
> added the 
> >>>manual to CVS in the AccessGrid/doc directory.  It is a 
> draft/alpha 
> >>>document so please let me know if you are having any questions or 
> >>>suggestions.
> >>>
> >>>Thanks,
> >>>
> >>>Susanne
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>On Tue, 18 May 2004, Ivan R. Judson wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Let's take this opportunity to have Brian read over 
> susanne's manual.
> >>>>
> >>>>Susanne, can you point him at a copy?
> >>>>
> >>>>--Ivan
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>>From: Brian Corrie [mailto:bcorrie at sfu.ca]
> >>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 10:39 AM
> >>>>>To: judson at mcs.anl.gov
> >>>>>Subject: Re: [AG-TECH] features of 2.2 and future roadmap?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Hi Ivan,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>If you are looking for a reviewer of the Shared Applications 
> >>>>>Developers Tools, Examples, and Programmers Manual let 
> me put up my 
> >>>>>hand!!! I am in the midst of working on some Shared Apps 
> and would 
> >>>>>dearly love to get my hands on some docs (even alpha 
> docs). I find 
> >>>>>reading the source code and using the examples 
> (especially trying 
> >>>>>to figure out the difference between 2.1.2 and 2.2) can 
> be somewhat 
> >>>>>time consuming and difficult 8-)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Cheers,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Brian
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Ivan R. Judson wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Hi Ivo,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>We're working on the beta right now. The list of features
> >>>>>
> >>>>>in the 2.2
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>release (at last a pretty complete but partial list) is:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Updated to Python 2.3 (2.2 still supported on legacy
> >>>>>
> >>>>>platforms) Update
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>to the latest SOAPpy, Python 2.3 Update to newer pyGlobus
> >>>>>
> >>>>>and Globus
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Toolkit (on linux) New packaging Streamlined Certificate 
> >>>>>>Management User Interfaces Support for Service Certificates 
> >>>>>>Support for an Anonymous Certificate Request Services New Node 
> >>>>>>Service Packaging, which supports more flexible Node Services 
> >>>>>>Shared Applications Developers Tools, Examples and a 
> Programmers 
> >>>>>>Manual A Venue Client Control Interface (so the Venue 
> Client can 
> >>>>>>be programmatically
> >>>>>>controlled) Usage logging in the Venue Server Automatic
> >>>>>
> >>>>>reconnection
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>for the Venue Client
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>a feature i'd really like to see in future is some kind of 
> >>>>>>>notification possibility. one can "ring" someone in the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>venue, or gets
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>notificated, if someone enters the venue.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>I need to understand what you mean by this, since it's not
> >>>>>
> >>>>>clear what
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>"ringing" someone you're in the same virtual room with 
> means. If I 
> >>>>>>interpret it correctly, it's more of a "tap on the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>shoulder" -- a way
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>to get someone's attention. If I'm correct, that's a 
> great feature 
> >>>>>>request, could you put it in bugzilla and we'll be sure to
> >>>>>
> >>>>>get to it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>another thing that i do not know if it is already possible,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>but would
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>be quite useful: connect the venue client and the local 
> >>>>>>>standardbrowser.
> >>>>>>>one can click on some link, that directs the venue 
> client to that 
> >>>>>>>specified venue. and aswell the opposite way, to 
> direct the local 
> >>>>>>>standard browser to a url from an object located in a venue.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>This is in the works, we're working with NCSA to make it
> >>>>>
> >>>>>possible to
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>launch the venue client (or redirect an existing client) to
> >>>>>
> >>>>>the venue
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>specified by something you click on. Going the other 
> direction is 
> >>>>>>something that is possible in various ways, but if you can
> >>>>>
> >>>>>describe it
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>more completely I can see what is possible.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>how about the mentioned venueVNC. is this some kind of 
> VNC that 
> >>>>>>>is integrated in the venue client? is that really 
> planned or just 
> >>>>>>>a thought.
> >>>>>>>(http://www-unix.mcs.anl.gov/fl/research/accessgrid/wiki/moin.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>cgi/Notes_20for_202_2e2_20release)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>The VenueVNC client will be included in the 2.2 
> software release. 
> >>>>>>We'll follow-on after the official release with a service
> >>>>>
> >>>>>package that
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>people who want to provide vnc services can use to put vnc
> >>>>>
> >>>>>services in virtual venues.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>We are still working on the model for VNC-like applications and 
> >>>>>>the service model fits the best, right now, we're going to be
> >>>>>
> >>>>>putting some
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>work into making that more seamless and integrated this fall.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>what do you think about these features?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>I think they're great, keep them coming!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Thanks for taking the time to send them.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>--Ivan
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>
> 
> 
> 




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