[AG-TECH] features of 2.2 and future roadmap? (fwd)

Susanne Lefvert lefvert at mcs.anl.gov
Fri May 28 11:28:43 CDT 2004 


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:40:08 -0700
From: Brian Corrie <bcorrie at sfu.ca>
To: Susanne Lefvert <lefvert at mcs.anl.gov>
Subject: Re: [AG-TECH] features of 2.2 and future roadmap? (fwd)

Hi Susanne,

I have read through and the document and it looks pretty good. You have 
done a nice job of capturing what one would normally do with a Shared 
App in the class structure.

My main problem (and the complaint I have about the 2.1.2 environment) 
is that it is unclear what one might be able to do OUTSIDE of the scope 
of what is described in the manual. For example, what if I want my 
Shared App to do something that the Client class does not encapsulate. 
Or what if I want to extend it in some form. There does not seem to be a 
mechanism for me to try and understand what is possible with my shared 
app interacting with the shared app space, the venue itself, and the 
surrounding environment etc. This is not really a criticism of the 
document itself but how one writing a shared app might interact with 
other parts of the system beyond the a simple example.

A couple of examples in particular jump to mind. Many shared apps are 
wrappers that start other applications (like the VNC app). It is my 
understanding that when registering an app one can specify files on the 
files line of the app file, where one of the files is the application 
itself (VNC.exe). This keeps all of the relevant files together. When 
one starts the shared application it needs to know where the executable 
is but it is unclear what environment the system is in. The VNC shared 
app seems to assume that the vnc application is in the same directory as 
the py file.... Can one determine where these helper apps are through 
any of the venue or SharedApp interfaces?

Another possibility is interacting with Data that is stored in the 
venue. For example, I might want to put a powerpoint in the venue and 
have my shared powerpoint app ask the venue for all its data and ask the 
user to choose a file from the venue to use instead of specifying a 
powerpoint file explicitly...

In some ways this is outside of the scope of the manual you have 
written, but this is where I think I would run into problems on how to 
go beyond the simplest of shared application.

I like the manual, it gives the reader a way of quickly writing a shared 
app. As described above, I would like to see something that provides 
more context to the surrounding environment so it is more clear how to 
interact with other pieces that exist in the venue. Maybe that belongs 
in another document???

I have a shared app that I might try and convert over to the new model 
over the next week or so. If I do I will have some more concrete 
feedback on specifics...

Cheers,

Brian


Susanne Lefvert wrote:

> Brian,
> 
> Feel free to pass it around, I just think it is great to get feedback. 
> Also, I am planning on giving the manual to our editor and updating it to 
> reflect the latest code sometime next week, so now is a good time to give 
> suggestions.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Susanne
> 
> On Tue, 18 May 2004, Brian Corrie wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hi Susanne,
>>
>>I will take a look at it this week and give you some feedback... I am 
>>sure it will be helpful. Do you mind if I pass it on to some of my 
>>colleagues who would also be interested?
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>Brian
>>
>>
>>Susanne Lefvert wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hello Brian,
>>>
>>>I am glad to hear that you would like to review the programmer's manual.  
>>>You can find a copy attached to this email and I have also added the 
>>>manual to CVS in the AccessGrid/doc directory.  It is a draft/alpha 
>>>document so please let me know if you are having any questions or 
>>>suggestions.  
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>
>>>Susanne 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Tue, 18 May 2004, Ivan R. Judson wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Let's take this opportunity to have Brian read over susanne's manual.
>>>>
>>>>Susanne, can you point him at a copy?
>>>>
>>>>--Ivan 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: Brian Corrie [mailto:bcorrie at sfu.ca] 
>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 10:39 AM
>>>>>To: judson at mcs.anl.gov
>>>>>Subject: Re: [AG-TECH] features of 2.2 and future roadmap?
>>>>>
>>>>>Hi Ivan,
>>>>>
>>>>>If you are looking for a reviewer of the Shared Applications 
>>>>>Developers Tools, Examples, and Programmers Manual let me put 
>>>>>up my hand!!! I am in the midst of working on some Shared 
>>>>>Apps and would dearly love to get my hands on some docs (even 
>>>>>alpha docs). I find reading the source code and using the 
>>>>>examples (especially trying to figure out the difference 
>>>>>between 2.1.2 and 2.2) can be somewhat time consuming and 
>>>>>difficult 8-)
>>>>>
>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>>Brian
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Ivan R. Judson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi Ivo,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>We're working on the beta right now. The list of features 
>>>>>
>>>>>in the 2.2 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>release (at last a pretty complete but partial list) is:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Updated to Python 2.3 (2.2 still supported on legacy 
>>>>>
>>>>>platforms) Update 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>to the latest SOAPpy, Python 2.3 Update to newer pyGlobus 
>>>>>
>>>>>and Globus 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Toolkit (on linux) New packaging Streamlined Certificate Management 
>>>>>>User Interfaces Support for Service Certificates Support for an 
>>>>>>Anonymous Certificate Request Services New Node Service Packaging, 
>>>>>>which supports more flexible Node Services Shared Applications 
>>>>>>Developers Tools, Examples and a Programmers Manual A Venue Client 
>>>>>>Control Interface (so the Venue Client can be programmatically 
>>>>>>controlled) Usage logging in the Venue Server Automatic 
>>>>>
>>>>>reconnection 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>for the Venue Client
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>a feature i'd really like to see in future is some kind of 
>>>>>>>notification possibility. one can "ring" someone in the 
>>>>>
>>>>>venue, or gets 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>notificated, if someone enters the venue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I need to understand what you mean by this, since it's not 
>>>>>
>>>>>clear what 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"ringing" someone you're in the same virtual room with means. If I 
>>>>>>interpret it correctly, it's more of a "tap on the 
>>>>>
>>>>>shoulder" -- a way 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>to get someone's attention. If I'm correct, that's a great feature 
>>>>>>request, could you put it in bugzilla and we'll be sure to 
>>>>>
>>>>>get to it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>another thing that i do not know if it is already possible, 
>>>>>
>>>>>but would 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>be quite useful: connect the venue client and the local 
>>>>>>>standardbrowser.
>>>>>>>one can click on some link, that directs the venue client to that 
>>>>>>>specified venue. and aswell the opposite way, to direct the local 
>>>>>>>standard browser to a url from an object located in a venue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This is in the works, we're working with NCSA to make it 
>>>>>
>>>>>possible to 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>launch the venue client (or redirect an existing client) to 
>>>>>
>>>>>the venue 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>specified by something you click on. Going the other direction is 
>>>>>>something that is possible in various ways, but if you can 
>>>>>
>>>>>describe it 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>more completely I can see what is possible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>how about the mentioned venueVNC. is this some kind of VNC that is 
>>>>>>>integrated in the venue client? is that really planned or just a 
>>>>>>>thought.
>>>>>>>(http://www-unix.mcs.anl.gov/fl/research/accessgrid/wiki/moin.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>cgi/Notes_20for_202_2e2_20release)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The VenueVNC client will be included in the 2.2 software release. 
>>>>>>We'll follow-on after the official release with a service 
>>>>>
>>>>>package that 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>people who want to provide vnc services can use to put vnc 
>>>>>
>>>>>services in virtual venues.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>We are still working on the model for VNC-like applications and the 
>>>>>>service model fits the best, right now, we're going to be 
>>>>>
>>>>>putting some 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>work into making that more seamless and integrated this fall.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>what do you think about these features?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I think they're great, keep them coming!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks for taking the time to send them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--Ivan
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>

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