[Swift-devel] Re: GRAM and Swift discussion this week?

[Yong Zhao]

Swift does hide which provider the app uses, say, local, gt2, gt4, falkon.
I think the major reasons they are not using WS-GRAM are:

- WS_GRAM not configured
- WS_GRAM slower than GT2

But as you've pointed out, as things improve, we should shift to WS_GRAM
gradually.

Yong.

On Tue, 22 May 2007, Stuart Martin wrote:

>
> On May 22, 2007, at May 22, 2:22 PM, Ben Clifford wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 22 May 2007, Stuart Martin wrote:
> >
> >> On May 22, 2007, at May 22, 1:43 PM, Ben Clifford wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, 22 May 2007, Ian Foster wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Are there WS-GRAM issues that are causing problems for Swift?
> >>>
> >>> No one uses WS-GRAM with Swift, so we aren't really uncovering issus
> >>> there.
> >>
> >
> >> Why not?  What are you using?  GRAM2?  local executions?  Other
> >> services?
> >
> > for the high end stuff, Swift submits jobs to Falkon. Falkon, I think,
> > uses WS-GRAM to start up its own workers, but that startup part of
> > Falkon
> > not Swift.
> >
> > For low end stuff, the two providers that I think people use much are
> > local exec and GRAM2.
> >
> > Local exec is not in the space that GRAM is addressing, so ignore.
>
> Agreed.  Just trying to learn what people are doing.
>
> >
> > The GRAM2 vs GRAM4 question pretty much comes down to the fact that
> > people
> > in production (at least as far as I encounter them) tend to use GRAM2
> > rather than GRAM4 and so Swift tends to get used that way too -
> > there's no
> > real motivation to push people to use a different submission system
> > than
> > what they're used to, and one thing we decided within our group is
> > that we
> > would concentrate on being very application focused (after we had
> > spent
> > rather a long time pontificating and debating). GRAM2 -> GRAM4 doesn't
> > provide enough incentive (in the way that a GRAM2 -> Falkon change
> > does)
> > for our actual apps (for example that Tibi and Nika work on).
>
> Fair enough.  GRAM4 is deployed on most of TG and OSG now.  It would
> be good to push jobs to GRAM4 when reasonable/possible.  The apps
> folks should not care which service is used.  It should be hidden by
> Swift.  Or are the apps folks your working with also dictating what
> GRAM service is deployed/used?
>
> >
> > At some point, perhaps, GRAM2 will decay or GRAM4 will become
> > tantalising,
> > at which point it would be in the interests of being app-focused to
> > shift.
> > Or we might change our priorities to be less app focused.
>
> Some are quite happy with GRAM4 in 4.0.3.  We're improving things
> right now to make GRAM4 outperform GRAM2 in most all the important
> benchmarks.  This should be in 4.0.5.  I think things at that point
> become "tantalizing".
>
> >
> > --
> >
>
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