# [petsc-users] questions about the SNES Function Norm

Xiangdong epscodes at gmail.com
Fri May 2 12:53:52 CDT 2014

```On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 10:21 PM, Barry Smith <bsmith at mcs.anl.gov> wrote:

>
> On May 1, 2014, at 9:12 PM, Xiangdong <epscodes at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I came up with a simple example to demonstrate this "eliminating row"
> behavior. It happens when the solution x to the linearized equation Ax=b is
> out of the bound set by SNESVISetVariableBounds();
> >
> > In the attached example, I use snes to solve a simple function x-b=0.
> When you run it, it outputs the matrix as 25 rows, while the real Jacobian
> should be 5*5*2=50 rows. If one changes the lower bound in line 125 to be
> -inf, it will output 50 rows for the Jacobian. In the first case, the norm
> given by SNESGetFunctionNorm and SNESGetFunction+VecNorm are also different.
> >
> > In solving the nonlinear equations, it is likely that the solution of
> the linearized equation is out of bound, but then we can reset the
> out-of-bound solution to be lower or upper bound instead of eliminating the
> variables (the rows). Any suggestions on doing this in petsc?
>
>    This is what PETSc is doing. It is using the "active set method".
> Variables that are at their bounds are “frozen” and then a smaller system
> is solved (involving just the variables not a that bounds) to get the next
> search direction.  Based on the next search direction some of the variables
> on the bounds may be unfrozen and other variables may be frozen. There is a
> huge literature on this topic. See for example our buddies    • Nocedal,
> Jorge; Wright, Stephen J. (2006). Numerical Optimization (2nd ed.). Berlin,
> New York: Springer-Verlag. ISBN 978-0-387-30303-1..
>
>    The SNESGetFunctionNorm and SNESGetFunction+VecNorm  may return
> different values with the SNES VI solver. If you care about the function
> value just use SNESGetFunction() and compute the norm that way. We are
> eliminating SNESGetFunctionNorm() from PETSc because it is problematic.
>
>    If you think the SNES VI solver is actually not solving the problem, or
> giving the wrong answer than please send us the entire simple code and
> we’ll see if we have introduced any bugs into our solver. But note that the
> linear system being of different sizes is completely normal for the solver.
>

Here is an example I do not quite understand. I have a simple function F(X)
= [x1+x2+100 ; x1-x2; x3+x4; x3-x4+50]. If I solve this F(X)=0 with no
constraint, the exact solution is [x1=-50; x2=-50; x3=-25; x4=25].

If I specify the constraint as x2>=0 and x4>=0, I expect the solution from
one iteration of SNES is [-50, 0,-25,25], since the constraint on x2 should
be active now. However, the petsc outputs the solution [-50, 0, 0, 0].
Since x3 and x4 does not violate the constraint, why does the solution of
x3 and x4 change (note that x3 and x3 are decoupled from x1 and x2)? In
this case, the matrix obtained from KSPGetOperators is only 2-by-2, so two
variables  or constraints are eliminated.

Another thing I noticed is that  constraints x2>-1e-7 and x4>-1e-7 gives
solution [-50,-1e-7,-25,25]; however, constraints x2>-1e-8 and x4>-1e-8
gives the solution [-50,0,0,0].

Attached please find the simple 130-line code showing this behavior. Simply
commenting the line 37 to remove the constraints and modifying line 92 to
change the lower bounds of x2 and x4.

Thanks a lot for your time and help.

Best,
Xiangdong

>
>
>   Barry
>
>
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > Best,
> > Xiangdong
> >
> > P.S. If we change the lower bound of field u (line 124) to be zero, then
> the Jacobian matrix is set to be NULL by petsc.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 3:43 PM, Xiangdong <epscodes at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Here is the order of functions I called:
> >
> > DMDACreate3d();
> >
> > SNESCreate();
> >
> > SNESSetDM();  (DM with dof=2);
> >
> > DMSetApplicationContext();
> >
> > DMDASNESSetFunctionLocal();
> >
> > SNESVISetVariableBounds();
> >
> > DMDASNESetJacobianLocal();
> >
> > SNESSetFromOptions();
> >
> > SNESSolve();
> >
> > SNESGetKSP();
> > KSPGetSolution();
> > KSPGetRhs();
> > KSPGetOperators();   //get operator kspA, kspx, kspb;
> >
> > SNESGetFunctionNorm();  ==> get norm fnorma;
> > SNESGetFunction(); VecNorm(); ==> get norm fnormb;
> > SNESComputeFunction(); VecNorm(); ==> function evaluation fx at the
> solution x and get norm fnormc;
> >
> > Inside the FormJacobianLocal(), I output the matrix jac and preB;
> >
> > I found that fnorma matches the default SNES monitor output "SNES
> Function norm", but fnormb=fnormc != fnorma. The solution x, the residue fx
> obtained by  snescomputefunction, mat jac and preB are length 50 or
> 50-by-50, while the kspA, kspx, kspb are 25-by-25 or length 25.
> >
> > I checked that kspA=jac(1:2:end,1:2:end) and x(1:2:end)= kspA\kspb;
> x(2:2:end)=0; It seems that it completely ignores the second degree of
> freedom (setting it to zero). I saw this for (close to) constant initial
> guess, while for heterogeneous initial guess, it works fine and the matrix
> and vector size are correct, and the solution is correct. So this
> eliminating row behavior seems to be initial guess dependent.
> >
> > I saw this even if I use snes_fd, so we can rule out the possibility of
> wrong Jacobian. For the FormFunctionLocal(), I checked via
> SNESComputeFunction and it output the correct vector of residue.
> >
> > Are the orders of function calls correct?
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > Xiangdong
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Barry Smith <bsmith at mcs.anl.gov> wrote:
> >
> > On May 1, 2014, at 10:32 AM, Xiangdong <epscodes at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Under what condition, SNESGetFunctionNorm() will output different
> results from SENEGetFunction + VecNorm (with NORM_2)?
> > >
> > > For most of my test cases, it is the same. However, when I have some
> special (trivial) initial guess to the SNES problem, I see different norms.
> >
> >    Please send more details on your “trivial” case where the values are
> different. It could be that we are not setting the function norm properly
> on early exit from the solvers.
> > >
> > > Another phenomenon I noticed with this is that KSP in SNES squeeze my
> matrix by eliminating rows. I have a Jacobian supposed to be 50-by-50. When
> I use KSPGetOperators/rhs/solutions, I found that the operator is 25-by-25,
> and the rhs and solution is with length 25. Do you have any clue on what
> triggered this? To my surprise, when I output the Jacobian inside the
> FormJacobianLocal, it outputs the correct matrix 50-by-50 with correct
> numerical entries. Why does the operator obtained from KSP is different and
> got rows eliminated? These rows got eliminated have only one entries per
> row, but the rhs in that row is not zero. Eliminating these rows would give
> wrong solutions.
> >
> >    Hmm, we never squeeze out rows/columns from the Jacobian. The size of
> the Jacobian set with SNESSetJacobian() should always match that obtained
> with KSPGetOperators() on the linear system.   Please send more details on
> how you get this. Are you calling the KSPGetOperators() inside a
> preconditioner where the the preconditioner has chopped up the operator?
> >
> >    Barry
> >
> > >
> > > Thank you.
> > >
> > > Xiangdong
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 3:12 PM, Matthew Knepley <knepley at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 2:09 PM, Xiangdong <epscodes at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > It turns out to a be a bug  in my FormFunctionLocal(DMDALocalInfo
> *info,PetscScalar **x,PetscScalar **f,AppCtx *user). I forgot to initialize
> the array f. Zero the array f solved the problem and gave consistent result.
> > >
> > > Just curious, why does not petsc initialize the array f to zero by
> default inside petsc when passing the f array to FormFunctionLocal?
> > >
> > > If you directly set entires, you might not want us to spend the time
> writing those zeros.
> > >
> > > I have another quick question about the array x passed to
> FormFunctionLocal. If I want to know the which x is evaluated, how can I
> output x in a vector format? Currently, I created a global vector vecx and
> a local vector vecx_local, get the array of vecx_local_array, copy the x to
> vecx_local_array,  scatter to global vecx and output vecx. Is there a quick
> way to restore the array x to a vector and output?
> > >
> > > I cannot think of a better way than that.
> > >
> > >    Matt
> > >
> > > Thank you.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Xiangdong
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 10:28 PM, Barry Smith <bsmith at mcs.anl.gov>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Apr 28, 2014, at 3:23 PM, Xiangdong <epscodes at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello everyone,
> > > >
> > > > When I run snes program,
> > >
> > >                ^^^^ what SNES program”?
> > >
> > > > it outputs "SNES Function norm 1.23456789e+10". It seems that this
> norm is different from residue norm (even if solving F(x)=0)
> > >
> > >    Please send the full output where you see this.
> > >
> > > > and also differ from norm of the Jacobian. What is the definition of
> this "SNES Function Norm”?
> > >
> > >    The SNES Function Norm as printed by PETSc is suppose to the 2-norm
> of F(x) - b (where b is usually zero) and this is also the same thing as
> the “residue norm”
> > >
> > >    Barry
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Thank you.
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > > Xiangdong
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > What most experimenters take for granted before they begin their
> experiments is infinitely more interesting than any results to which their
> > > -- Norbert Wiener
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > <exdemo.c>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.mcs.anl.gov/pipermail/petsc-users/attachments/20140502/44626c3d/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: exdemosingle.c
Type: text/x-csrc
Size: 3398 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.mcs.anl.gov/pipermail/petsc-users/attachments/20140502/44626c3d/attachment.c>
```