[petsc-users] using petsc tools to solve isolated irregular domains with finite difference

Bishesh Khanal bisheshkh at gmail.com
Fri Nov 1 00:08:41 CDT 2013


On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 11:34 PM, Matthew Knepley <knepley at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Bishesh Khanal <bisheshkh at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 7:43 PM, Matthew Knepley <knepley at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 1:25 PM, Bishesh Khanal <bisheshkh at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> I did not call DMCreateMatrix() before when using just dmda (and it is
>>>> working). In any case, I added a call to DMCreateMatrix() now but still
>>>> there are problems. Here are the code snippets and the error I get:
>>>>
>>>
>>> Then you were allowing it to be called automatically by PETSc, and it
>>> would have been this time as well.
>>>
>>>
>>>> //Setting up the section and linking it to DM:
>>>> ierr = PetscSectionCreate(PETSC_COMM_WORLD, &s);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>     ierr = DMDAGetNumCells(dm, NULL, NULL, NULL, &nC);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>     ierr = PetscSectionSetChart(s, 0, nC);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>     for (PetscInt j = info.ys; j < info.ys+info.ym; ++j) {
>>>>         for (PetscInt i = info.xs; i < info.xs+info.xm; ++i) {
>>>>             PetscInt point;
>>>>             if(isPosInDomain(&testPoisson,i,j,0)) {
>>>>                 ierr = DMDAGetCellPoint(dm, i, j, 0,
>>>> &point);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>                 ierr = PetscSectionSetDof(s, point, testPoisson.mDof);
>>>> // No. of dofs associated with the point.
>>>>             }
>>>>         }
>>>>     }
>>>>     ierr = PetscSectionSetUp(s);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>     ierr = DMSetDefaultSection(dm, s);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>     ierr = PetscSectionDestroy(&s);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>     ierr = DMCreateMatrix(dm,&A);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>
>>>>  //Set up KSP:
>>>>     ierr = KSPCreate(PETSC_COMM_WORLD,&ksp);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>     ierr = KSPSetDM(ksp,dm);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>     ierr =
>>>> KSPSetComputeOperators(ksp,computeMatrix2dSection,(void*)&testPoisson);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>     ierr =
>>>> KSPSetComputeRHS(ksp,computeRhs2dSection,(void*)&testPoisson);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>     ierr = KSPSetFromOptions(ksp);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>     ierr = KSPSolve(ksp,NULL,NULL);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>>> The computeMatrix2dSection function has:
>>>>
>>>> ierr = KSPGetDM(ksp,&da);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>     ierr = DMDAGetLocalInfo(da,&info);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>     ierr = DMGetDefaultGlobalSection(da,&gs);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>     for(PetscInt j = info.ys; j<info.ys+info.ym; ++j) {
>>>>         for(PetscInt i = info.xs; i<info.xs+info.xm; ++i) {
>>>>             if (isPosInDomain(ctx,i,j)) {
>>>>                 ierr = DMDAGetCellPoint(da,i,j,0,&point);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>                 ierr = PetscSectionGetOffset(gs,point,&row);
>>>>                 ierr = PetscSectionGetDof(gs,point,&dof);
>>>>                 for(PetscInt cDof = 0; cDof < dof; ++cDof) {
>>>>                     num = 0;
>>>>                     row+=cDof;
>>>>                     col[num] = row;         //(i,j) position
>>>>                     v[num++] = -4;
>>>>                     if(isPosInDomain(ctx,i+1,j)) {
>>>>                         ierr =
>>>> DMDAGetCellPoint(da,i+1,j,0,&point);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>                         ierr =
>>>> PetscSectionGetOffset(gs,point,&col[num]);
>>>>                         col[num] += cDof;
>>>>                         v[num++] = 1;
>>>>                     }
>>>>                     if(isPosInDomain(ctx,i-1,j)) {
>>>>                         ierr =
>>>> DMDAGetCellPoint(da,i-1,j,0,&point);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>                         ierr =
>>>> PetscSectionGetOffset(gs,point,&col[num]);
>>>>                         col[num] += cDof;
>>>>                         v[num++] = 1;
>>>>                     }
>>>>                     if(isPosInDomain(ctx,i,j+1)) {
>>>>                         ierr =
>>>> DMDAGetCellPoint(da,i,j+1,0,&point);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>                         ierr =
>>>> PetscSectionGetOffset(gs,point,&col[num]);
>>>>                         col[num] += cDof;
>>>>                         v[num++] = 1;
>>>>                     }
>>>>                     if(isPosInDomain(ctx,i,j-1)) {
>>>>                         ierr =
>>>> DMDAGetCellPoint(da,i,j-1,0,&point);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>                         ierr =
>>>> PetscSectionGetOffset(gs,point,&col[num]);
>>>>                         col[num] += cDof;
>>>>                         v[num++] = 1;
>>>>                     }
>>>>                     ierr =
>>>> MatSetValues(A,1,&row,num,col,v,INSERT_VALUES);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>                 }
>>>>             }
>>>>         }
>>>>     }
>>>>     ierr = MatAssemblyBegin(A,MAT_FINAL_ASSEMBLY);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>     ierr = MatAssemblyEnd(A,MAT_FINAL_ASSEMBLY);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>
>>>> But this is not working. For e.g. for a 6X6 grid size I get the
>>>> following error:
>>>>
>>>
>>> Okay, here is how to debug this:
>>>
>>>   0) Go to a single scalar equations to make things easier
>>>
>>>   1) Use MatView(A, PETSC_VIEWER_STDOUT_WORLD), which should output a 36
>>> row matrix with
>>>        the preallocated nonzero pattern, filled with zeros
>>>
>>>   2) Make sure this is the pattern you want
>>>
>>>   3) Run in the debugger with -start_in_debugger
>>>
>>>   4) When you get the error, see
>>>
>>>     a) If the (i, j) is one that should be setting a value
>>>
>>>     b) Why this (i, j) was not preallocated
>>>
>>
>> Up to 4 (a), it is correct. There is a problem in the way
>> DMDAGetCellPoint and PetscSectionGetOffset works in this case scenario. I
>> will try to explain it below for the case of 4X4 grid.
>> First case:
>> If I set the computational domain to be all the points of the dmda grid,
>> (i.e. isPosInDomain(..,i,j,..) returns true for all i and j in the dmda
>> grid), the program runs fine and does not give any error.
>>
>> Second case:
>> I want the computational domain to be some part of the whole grid. There
>> is a problem in this case.
>> The following test is in a case where,
>> isPosInDomain(..,i,j,..) returns true ONLY for (i,j) pairs of (2,1) (1,2)
>> (2,2) (3,2) and (3,2). The grid with its corresponding point number in the
>> petscsection is shown below:
>>
>> 12  13  14  15
>> 8    9     10  11
>> 4    5     6    7
>> 0    1     2    3
>>
>> of which 6, 9, 10, 11 and 14 correspond to the (i,j) points that returns
>> true for isPosInDomain(..,i,j,..)
>> MatView gives me the 16-row matrix with the star stencil non-zero
>> structure as expected.
>> The error I get is: new non-zero at (0,2) caused a malloc.
>>
>> This error is for the value of (i,j) = (2,1), i.e. point 6.
>> The loop to set values in the matrix starts as:
>> for(PetscInt j = info.ys; j<info.ys+info.ym; ++j) {
>>         for(PetscInt i = info.xs; i<info.xs+info.xm; ++i) {
>>             if (isPosInDomain(ctx,i,j)) {
>>                 ierr = DMDAGetCellPoint(da,i,j,0,&point);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>                 ierr = PetscSectionGetOffset(gs,point,&row);
>>
>> Now, what I wanted from the beginning is to create the matrix containing
>> the rows corresponding to only those points (i,j) which has true values for
>> isPosInDomain(ctx,i,j), that means in this case 5 row matrix. In the
>> current test, the first (i,j) that reaches DMDAGetCellPoint is (2,1), which
>> gives sets point variable to 6.
>> The line PetscSectionGetOffset(gs,point,&row) sets the value of row to 0.
>> So I think this where the inconsistency lies.
>> MatSetValues(A,1,&row,num,col,v,INSERT_VALUES) expects row variable and
>> col[] array to correspond to (i,j) based on DMDA, but PetsSectionGetOffset
>> gives result based on how we masked away some of the points from dmda grid.
>> Or am I missing something very basic here ?
>>
>
> You are missing something basic. The row is correctly identified as 0, and
> that means the 2 is
> point 10.
>
The problem must be preallocation. First, you should send the result of
> MatView().
>

MatView shows that the preallocation and the matrix created is for the full
dmda grid which is probably not what we want here, right ? Here is the
matview result:

 Mat Object: 1 MPI processes

type: seqaij

row 0: (0, 0) (1, 0) (4, 0)

row 1: (0, 0) (1, 0) (2, 0) (5, 0)

row 2: (1, 0) (2, 0) (3, 0) (6, 0)

row 3: (2, 0) (3, 0) (7, 0)

row 4: (0, 0) (4, 0) (5, 0) (8, 0)

row 5: (1, 0) (4, 0) (5, 0) (6, 0) (9, 0)

row 6: (2, 0) (5, 0) (6, 0) (7, 0) (10, 0)

row 7: (3, 0) (6, 0) (7, 0) (11, 0)

row 8: (4, 0) (8, 0) (9, 0) (12, 0)

row 9: (5, 0) (8, 0) (9, 0) (10, 0) (13, 0)

row 10: (6, 0) (9, 0) (10, 0) (11, 0) (14, 0)

row 11: (7, 0) (10, 0) (11, 0) (15, 0)

row 12: (8, 0) (12, 0) (13, 0)

row 13: (9, 0) (12, 0) (13, 0) (14, 0)

row 14: (10, 0) (13, 0) (14, 0) (15, 0)

row 15: (11, 0) (14, 0) (15, 0)

[0]PETSC ERROR: --------------------- Error Message
------------------------------------

[0]PETSC ERROR: Argument out of range!

[0]PETSC ERROR: New nonzero at (0,2) caused a malloc!



>    Matt
>
>
>>
>>>   Thanks,
>>>
>>>      Matt
>>>
>>>
>>>> [0]PETSC ERROR: --------------------- Error Message
>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>> [0]PETSC ERROR: Argument out of range!
>>>> [0]PETSC ERROR: New nonzero at (0,6) caused a malloc!
>>>> [0]PETSC ERROR:
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> [0]PETSC ERROR: Petsc Development GIT revision:
>>>> 61e5e40bb2c5bf2423e94b71a15fef47e411b0da  GIT Date: 2013-10-25 21:47:45
>>>> -0500
>>>> [0]PETSC ERROR: See docs/changes/index.html for recent updates.
>>>> [0]PETSC ERROR: See docs/faq.html for hints about trouble shooting.
>>>> [0]PETSC ERROR: See docs/index.html for manual pages.
>>>> [0]PETSC ERROR:
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> [0]PETSC ERROR: build/poissonIrregular on a arch-linux2-cxx-debug named
>>>> edwards by bkhanal Thu Oct 31 19:23:58 2013
>>>> [0]PETSC ERROR: Libraries linked from
>>>> /home/bkhanal/Documents/softwares/petsc/arch-linux2-cxx-debug/lib
>>>> [0]PETSC ERROR: Configure run at Sat Oct 26 16:35:15 2013
>>>> [0]PETSC ERROR: Configure options --download-mpich
>>>> -download-f-blas-lapack=1 --download-metis --download-parmetis
>>>> --download-superlu_dist --download-scalapack --download-mumps
>>>> --download-hypre --with-clanguage=cxx
>>>> [0]PETSC ERROR:
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> [0]PETSC ERROR: MatSetValues_SeqAIJ() line 413 in
>>>> src/mat/impls/aij/seq/aij.c
>>>> [0]PETSC ERROR: MatSetValues() line 1130 in src/mat/interface/matrix.c
>>>> [0]PETSC ERROR: computeMatrix2dSection() line 318 in
>>>> /user/bkhanal/home/works/poissonIrregular/poissonIrregular.cxx
>>>> [0]PETSC ERROR: KSPSetUp() line 228 in src/ksp/ksp/interface/itfunc.c
>>>> [0]PETSC ERROR: KSPSolve() line 399 in src/ksp/ksp/interface/itfunc.c
>>>> [0]PETSC ERROR: main() line 598 in
>>>> /user/bkhanal/home/works/poissonIrregular/poissonIrregular.cxx
>>>> application called MPI_Abort(MPI_COMM_WORLD, 63) - process 0
>>>> [unset]: aborting job:
>>>> application called MPI_Abort(MPI_COMM_WORLD, 63) - process 0
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>    Matt
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> However, now since I do not want the rows in the matrix corresponding
>>>>>> to the points in the grid which do not lie in the computational domain.
>>>>>> This means the size of the matrix will not necessarily equal the total
>>>>>> number of cells in DMDA. So in the following code:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  ierr = DMDAGetLocalInfo(dm,&info);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>>>     ierr = PetscSectionCreate(PETSC_COMM_WORLD, &s);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>>>     ierr = DMDAGetNumCells(dm, NULL, NULL, NULL, &nC);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>>>     ierr = PetscSectionSetChart(s, 0, nC);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>>>     for (PetscInt j = info.ys; j < info.ys+info.ym; ++j) {
>>>>>>         for (PetscInt i = info.xs; i < info.xs+info.xm; ++i) {
>>>>>>             PetscInt point;
>>>>>>             if(isPosInDomain(&testPoisson,i,j,0)) {
>>>>>>                 ierr = DMDAGetCellPoint(dm, i, j, 0,
>>>>>> &point);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>>>                 ierr = PetscSectionSetDof(s, point,
>>>>>> testPoisson.mDof); // No. of dofs associated with the point.
>>>>>>             }
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         }
>>>>>>     }
>>>>>>     ierr = PetscSectionSetUp(s);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>>>     ierr = DMSetDefaultSection(dm, s);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>>>     ierr = PetscSectionDestroy(&s);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>>>
>>>>>> should I myself compute proper nC (i.e. total no. of points for which
>>>>>> I want the matrix to have a corresponding row) before calling
>>>>>> PetscSectionSetChart() or is the masking out of the points inside the loop
>>>>>> with if(isPosInDomain(&testPoisson,i,j,0)) sufficient ?
>>>>>> And, when you write:
>>>>>> PetscSectionGetOffset(gs, p, &ind);
>>>>>>   row = ind < 0 ? -(ind+1) : ind;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> it seems you allow the possibility of getting a -ve ind when using
>>>>>> PetscSectionGetOffset. When would an offset to a particular dof and point?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>         for(PetscInt j = info.ys; j<info.ys+info.ym; ++j) {
>>>>>>>>             for(PetscInt i = info.xs; i<info.xs+info.xm; ++i) {
>>>>>>>>                 num = 0;
>>>>>>>>                 /*ierr =
>>>>>>>> DMDAGetCellPoint(da,i,j,0,&point);CHKERRQ(ierr);*/ /*Get the PetscPoint*/
>>>>>>>>                 /*But I did now understand how I would emulate the
>>>>>>>> row.c and col.c info with PetscSection*/
>>>>>>>>                 row.i = i;  row.j = j;
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here you would call
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    ierr = DMDAGetCellPoint(da, i, j, 0, &cell);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>>>>    ierr = PetscSectionGetOffset(da, cell, &row);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>>>>    ierr = PetscSectionGetDof(da, cell, &dof);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This means that this cell has global rows = [row, row+dof).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                  col[num].i = i; col[num].j = j;
>>>>>>>>                 if (isPosInDomain(ctx,i,j)) {      /*put the
>>>>>>>> operator for only the values for only the points lying in the domain*/
>>>>>>>>                     v[num++] = -4;
>>>>>>>>                     if(isPosInDomain(ctx,i+1,j)) {
>>>>>>>>                         col[num].i = i+1;   col[num].j = j;
>>>>>>>>                         v[num++] = 1;
>>>>>>>>                     }
>>>>>>>>                     if(isPosInDomain(ctx,i-1,j)) {
>>>>>>>>                         col[num].i = i-1;   col[num].j = j;
>>>>>>>>                         v[num++] = 1;
>>>>>>>>                     }
>>>>>>>>                     if(isPosInDomain(ctx,i,j+1)) {
>>>>>>>>                         col[num].i = i;     col[num].j = j+1;
>>>>>>>>                         v[num++] = 1;
>>>>>>>>                     }
>>>>>>>>                     if(isPosInDomain(ctx,i,j-1)) {
>>>>>>>>                         col[num].i = i;     col[num].j = j-1;
>>>>>>>>                         v[num++] = 1;
>>>>>>>>                     }
>>>>>>>>                 } else {
>>>>>>>>                     v[num++] = dScale;  /*set Dirichlet identity
>>>>>>>> rows for points in the rectangle but outside the computational domain*/
>>>>>>>>                 }
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You do the same thing for the columns, and then call
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   ierr = MatSetValues(A, dof, rows, num*dof, cols, v,
>>>>>>> INSERT_VALUES);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                 ierr =
>>>>>>>> MatSetValuesStencil(A,1,&row,num,col,v,INSERT_VALUES);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>>>>>>             }
>>>>>>>>         }
>>>>>>>>     }
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>     Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>      Matt
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>    Matt
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>    Matt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>      Matt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  If not, just put the identity into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rows you do not use on the full cube. It will not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hurt scalability or convergence.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the case of Poisson with Dirichlet condition this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> might be the case. But is it always true that having identity rows in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system matrix will not hurt convergence ? I thought otherwise for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following reasons:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1)  Having read Jed's answer here :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://scicomp.stackexchange.com/questions/3426/why-is-pinning-a-point-to-remove-a-null-space-bad/3427#3427
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jed is talking about a constraint on a the pressure at a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point. This is just decoupling these unknowns from the rest
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) Some observation I am getting (but I am still doing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more experiments to confirm) while solving my staggered-grid 3D stokes flow
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with schur complement and using -pc_type gamg for A00 matrix. Putting the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> identity rows for dirichlet boundaries and for ghost cells seemed to have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effects on its convergence. I'm hoping once I know how to use PetscSection,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can get rid of using ghost cells method for the staggered grid and get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rid of the identity rows too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It can change the exact iteration, but it does not make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the matrix conditioning worse.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    Matt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Anyway please provide me with some pointers so that I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can start trying with petscsection on top of a dmda, in the beginning for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-staggered case.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bishesh
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   Matt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bishesh
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What most experimenters take for granted before they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> begin their experiments is infinitely more interesting than any results to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which their experiments lead.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- Norbert Wiener
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What most experimenters take for granted before they begin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their experiments is infinitely more interesting than any results to which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their experiments lead.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- Norbert Wiener
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What most experimenters take for granted before they begin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their experiments is infinitely more interesting than any results to which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their experiments lead.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- Norbert Wiener
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What most experimenters take for granted before they begin
>>>>>>>>>>>>> their experiments is infinitely more interesting than any results to which
>>>>>>>>>>>>> their experiments lead.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- Norbert Wiener
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> What most experimenters take for granted before they begin their
>>>>>>>>>>> experiments is infinitely more interesting than any results to which their
>>>>>>>>>>> experiments lead.
>>>>>>>>>>> -- Norbert Wiener
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> What most experimenters take for granted before they begin their
>>>>>>>>> experiments is infinitely more interesting than any results to which their
>>>>>>>>> experiments lead.
>>>>>>>>> -- Norbert Wiener
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> What most experimenters take for granted before they begin their
>>>>>>> experiments is infinitely more interesting than any results to which their
>>>>>>> experiments lead.
>>>>>>> -- Norbert Wiener
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> What most experimenters take for granted before they begin their
>>>>> experiments is infinitely more interesting than any results to which their
>>>>> experiments lead.
>>>>> -- Norbert Wiener
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> What most experimenters take for granted before they begin their
>>> experiments is infinitely more interesting than any results to which their
>>> experiments lead.
>>> -- Norbert Wiener
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> What most experimenters take for granted before they begin their
> experiments is infinitely more interesting than any results to which their
> experiments lead.
> -- Norbert Wiener
>
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