[petsc-dev] PETSc future starting as a new design layer that runs on top of PETSc 3?

[Lisandro Dalcin]

On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 at 17:07, Matthew Knepley <knepley at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Jul 31, 2022 at 9:06 AM Lisandro Dalcin <dalcinl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 at 16:41, Jacob Faibussowitsch <jacob.fai at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> > Please don't take my words as advocacy for C++
>>>
>>> I’m going to pretend like I didn’t read this :)
>>>
>>
>> Whatever the final decision is, PETSc should keep providing a plain C
>> API. C is lingua franca, C++ is not. Many other programming languages have
>> runtime FFIs mostly based on the C ABI guarantees (Java, Python, MATLAB,
>> Rust, Julia, etc). C++ may be great for development, but I do not consider
>> it great for crossing language boundaries.
>>
>> Maybe the right approach for petsc4py is to first get nice and modern
>> C++ bindings implemented by wrapping the C interface. And then map these
>> C++ bindings to Python.
>>
>
> My crystal ball says that such a C++ binding would eventually be thrown
> away just as in the case of MPI.
>

MPI C++ failed because it provided little added value. But if a PETSc C++
API would become the base of bindings for other OO languages, then there is
value in maintaining these C++ bindings.
Furthermore, these C++ bindings could serve as the foundation for a
reimplementation of PETSc in C++, if that ever happens. And that can be
done gradually.

PS: Modern C++ is a great language to implement stuff. People using C++ is
another story, it is like giving a machine gun to monkeys. Well, at this
point, I could say exactly the same about Python.
My issue with C++ is not the language itself, but the lack of discipline of
C++ developers. There are disastrous stories we all know well. But there
are successful ones, like VTK/ParaView.


-- 
Lisandro Dalcin
============
Senior Research Scientist
Extreme Computing Research Center (ECRC)
King Abdullah University of Science and Technology (KAUST)
http://ecrc.kaust.edu.sa/
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