docs for MINRES, only for positive definite?

[Barry Smith]

On Feb 28, 2008, at 11:44 AM, Lisandro Dalcin wrote:

> Indeed.
>
> In my example, the diagonal matrix has positive and negative entries,
> thus being symmetric indefinite. Using PCNONE(==identity), MINRES
> success, but with PCJACOBI (despite the preconditioned operator being
> the identity, thus SPD) MINRES fails.
>
> The question is if preconditione MINRES could be implemented for the
> case of a symmetric but indefinite PC. No time to look for the anwer

   Unlikely. One has to do the minimization in some norm, with minres it
is the norm defined by the preconditioner (or I if no preconditioner)).

    Barry

>
> :-( .
>
> On 2/28/08, Barry Smith <bsmith at mcs.anl.gov> wrote:
>>
>>   symmetry has nothing to do with it. Yes the matrix and
>> preconditioner must be
>> symmetric. The point is that the preconditioner has to also be
>> positive definite.
>> Because B is used in the algorithm to define a norm.
>>
>>
>>    Barry
>>
>>
>> On Feb 28, 2008, at 11:28 AM, Matthew Knepley wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 11:25 AM, Lisandro Dalcin
>>> <dalcinl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Good point, the current code seems to require that...
>>>
>>> Its not the code, its the algorithm. It requires symmetry.
>>>
>>> Matt
>>>
>>>> ierr = KSP_PCApply(ksp,R,Z);CHKERRQ(ierr); /*     z  <- B*r        
>>>> */
>>>> ierr = VecDot(R,Z,&dp);CHKERRQ(ierr);
>>>> /*...*/
>>>> if (dp < 0.0) {
>>>>   ksp->reason = KSP_DIVERGED_INDEFINITE_PC;
>>>>   PetscFunctionReturn(0);
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> Indeed, the following (simple minded, diagonal matrix) test fails
>>>> with
>>>> -pc_type jacobi, but success with -pc_type none
>>>>
>>>> import sys, petsc4py
>>>> petsc4py.init(sys.argv)
>>>> from petsc4py import PETSc
>>>> import numpy as N
>>>> A = PETSc.Mat().createAIJ([10,10])
>>>> for i in range(0,5):
>>>>   A[i,i] = -(i + 1)
>>>> for i in range(5,10):
>>>>   A[i,i] = +(i + 1)
>>>> A.assemble()
>>>> A.view()
>>>> x, b= A.getVecs()
>>>> b.set(1)
>>>> ksp = PETSc.KSP().create()
>>>> ksp.type = 'minres'
>>>> ksp.setOperators(A)
>>>> ksp.setFromOptions()
>>>> ksp.solve(b,x)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2/28/08, Barry Smith <bsmith at mcs.anl.gov> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>   But does it require a positive definite preconditioner?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>   Barry
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 28, 2008, at 9:32 AM, Matthew Knepley wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Docs are wrong.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Matt
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2008/2/28 Lisandro Dalcin <dalcinl at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>> I've noticed that the docs for MINRES say that the operator and
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> preconditioner must be POSITIVE DEFINITE. But I understand
>>>>>>> MINRES is
>>>>>>> tailored for the symmetric/hermitian-indefinite case.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Are the docs wrong? Or the actual code is a (very peculiar)  
>>>>>>> MINRES
>>>>>>> variant?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Lisandro Dalcín
>>>>>>> ---------------
>>>>>>> Centro Internacional de Métodos Computacionales en Ingeniería
>>>>>>> (CIMEC)
>>>>>>> Instituto de Desarrollo Tecnológico para la Industria Química
>>>>>>> (INTEC)
>>>>>>> Consejo Nacional de Investigaciones Científicas y Técnicas
>>>>>>> (CONICET)
>>>>>>> PTLC - Güemes 3450, (3000) Santa Fe, Argentina
>>>>>>> Tel/Fax: +54-(0)342-451.1594
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> What most experimenters take for granted before they begin their
>>>>>> experiments is infinitely more interesting than any results to
>>>>>> which
>>>>>> their experiments lead.
>>>>>> -- Norbert Wiener
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Lisandro Dalcín
>>>> ---------------
>>>> Centro Internacional de Métodos Computacionales en Ingeniería  
>>>> (CIMEC)
>>>> Instituto de Desarrollo Tecnológico para la Industria Química  
>>>> (INTEC)
>>>> Consejo Nacional de Investigaciones Científicas y Técnicas  
>>>> (CONICET)
>>>> PTLC - Güemes 3450, (3000) Santa Fe, Argentina
>>>> Tel/Fax: +54-(0)342-451.1594
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> What most experimenters take for granted before they begin their
>>> experiments is infinitely more interesting than any results to which
>>> their experiments lead.
>>> -- Norbert Wiener
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Lisandro Dalcín
> ---------------
> Centro Internacional de Métodos Computacionales en Ingeniería (CIMEC)
> Instituto de Desarrollo Tecnológico para la Industria Química (INTEC)
> Consejo Nacional de Investigaciones Científicas y Técnicas (CONICET)
> PTLC - Güemes 3450, (3000) Santa Fe, Argentina
> Tel/Fax: +54-(0)342-451.1594
>