[AG-TECH] HD on AG - Capture
Todd Zimmerman
todd.zimmerman at ubc.ca
Tue Dec 16 16:55:14 CST 2008
BTW, This card:
http://www.ncast.com/DigiCaptureCard.html
was suggested by someone on this list (can't recall who and the
searchable archives are down - sorry!!) as a possible HD analog capture
device. I plan on purchasing one soon (although the cost is approx $2k)
with an EVI-HD1.
Anyone used one of these before??
Todd
On Tue, 2008-12-16 at 16:32 -0600, Vine, Derek A wrote:
> I should add that we plan on using Sony EVI HD1 cameras.
>
> --Derek
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ag-tech-bounces at lists.mcs.anl.gov
> [mailto:ag-tech-bounces at lists.mcs.anl.gov] On Behalf Of Vine, Derek A
> Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 4:29 PM
> To: Gurcharan S. Khanna; Luc Renambot
> Cc: holub at ics.muni.cz; ag-tech
> Subject: Re: [AG-TECH] HD on AG
>
> So just for some clarity, if I wanted to have 3 or 4 HD video streams
> from Windows XP or Vista, what type of cards are supported/recommended
> and what changes need to be made to VIC?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Derek Vine
> Communication Network Specialist
> The University of South Dakota
> 414 East Clark Street
> Vermillion, SD 57069
> (605) 677-8215
> dvine at usd.edu
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ag-tech-bounces at lists.mcs.anl.gov
> [mailto:ag-tech-bounces at lists.mcs.anl.gov] On Behalf Of Gurcharan S.
> Khanna
> Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 9:43 AM
> To: Luc Renambot
> Cc: holub at ics.muni.cz; ag-tech; Vine, Derek A
> Subject: Re: [AG-TECH] HD on AG
>
> Luc,
>
> Yes, UltraGrid does work on Macs, but not mine :-(
>
> I've been working closely with Holub and team to get it working but it's
>
> been a long struggle.
> I think we'll get there but in the end, an integrated solution with AG
> is really what
> I'd like, so I'm eager to try that path, too.
>
> -gurcharan
>
>
> Luc Renambot wrote:
> >
> > On Dec 14, 2008, at 11:12 PM, Gurcharan S. Khanna wrote:
> >
> >> Doug,
> >>
> >> Really? Wow. You mean I can get vic to do uncompressed HD just like
> >> that?
> >> I've spent months trying to get UltraGrid to work on Macs (I got it
> >> working on
> >> colleagues machines but not mine!). But the goal was always to
> >> integrate it with
> >> the AG later. If this could be done now..........hmmmmmm....that
> >> would be the
> >> answer I've been waiting for.
> >>
> >
> > I think the Ultragrid version from Csnet/ Masaryk univ. works on Mac:
> > https://sitola.fi.muni.cz/igrid/index.php/UltraGrid
> >
> >
> > Luc Renambot
> > renambot at uic.edu Electronic Visualization Lab (M/C
> 152)
> > EVL Phone (312) 996-3002 University of Illinois at Chicago
> > EVL FAX (312) 413-7585 851 S. Morgan St. Room 1120 SEO
> > http://www.evl.uic.edu/luc Chicago, IL 60607-7053
> > \
> >
> >> So, can somebody kind do this quickly and let me try it out? I could
> >> eventually
> >> get someone to do this but it would be from scratch in terms of their
>
> >> experience
> >> with this software.
> >>
> >> If this works it would be so great and save so many hours of work for
>
> >> me.
> >>
> >> Anyone?
> >>
> >> Thanks so much!
> >>
> >> -gurcharan
> >>
> >> Douglas Kosovic wrote:
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>>>>>> I, too, am extremely interested in vic supporting HD formats,
> >>>>>>> (including uncompressed!) One of the issues is the encoding
> >>>>>>> latency problem. Not sure there's a nice low latency encoding
> >>>>>>> solution out there yet. Alternatively, we might look at cheap
> >>>>>>> hardware encoders as the answer or HDMI cards to take the input
> >>>>>>> from the camera.
> >>>>>>> Can vic be made to take the output of, say, the BlackMagic
> >>>>>>> Design HDMI card on a Mac?
> >>>
> >>> MacOS X UCL vic works out of the box with the BlackMagic Design HDMI
>
> >>> capture card, but gets scalled down to 640x480 for the large capture
>
> >>> option.
> >>>
> >>> A quick hack to add 1980x1080 support is to modify the following
> >>> width & height lines in video/grabber-macosx.cpp :
> >>> switch (decimate_) {
> >>> case 1: // full-sized
> >>> width_ = SP601_NTSC_WIDTH;
> >>> height_ = SP601_NTSC_HEIGHT;
> >>>
> >>> to:
> >>> width_ = 1920;
> >>> height_ = 1080;
> >>>
> >>> Windows UCL vic on the other hand crashes with the BlackMagic Design
>
> >>> HDMI capture card as it currently doesn't support the BlackMagic YUV
>
> >>> colorspace.
> >>>
> >>> I wouldn't mind adding support for USB HD camcorders that support
> >>> UVC (USB Video Class) H.264 streaming over USB, but I currently
> >>> don't have access to one. Note: Not all USB based camcorders support
>
> >>> UVC (e.g. Sony Hanycams).
> >>>
> >>>>>>> I am currently using AGDV under windows but would like to move
> >>>>>>> to linux and use the HDV/DV linux vic for the DV part; i don't
> >>>>>>> think it's encoding the HDV, just accepting it as input from the
>
> >>>>>>> camera already encoded??? [chris?]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> It is possible to just packetise the compressed data from a
> >>>>>> camera, though as Chris points out it tends to have quite high
> >>>>>> latency. That is why the ultragrid and derivatives used
> >>>>>> uncompressed HD as their sources. VIC doesn't currently support
> >>>>>> mpeg2 nor does support packetisation of an existing compressed
> >>>>>> mpeg2 stream.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> wait, i thought chris' vic supported HDV, which i assume is mp4???
> >>>>>
> >>>> AFAIK most cameras support HDV - which is closely related to
> MPEG-2:
> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDV#HDV_720p
> >>>
> >>> Mostly just the DV firewire based camcorders, the harddisk USB based
>
> >>> ones are now mostly AVCHD (MPEG-4 AVC/H.264).
> >>>
> >>>>> also, how hard/easy would it be for vic to support packetizing
> >>>>> uncompressed HD?
> >>>>>
> >>>> Not that hard - one needs to read the [RTP and codec] specs and
> >>>> code it up - or borrow someone else's....
> >>>>
> >>>> Piers.
> >>>>
> >>>>> :-)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -gurcharan
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Piers
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> My ideal would be to encode the presenter's laptop output and
> >>>>>>> deliver that as just another video stream along side the
> >>>>>>> presenter's video and the audience video and have autoplace lay
> >>>>>>> them out nicely in a framed window, a la Adobe Connect or
> >>>>>>> similar products, so the presenter, the slides, and additional
> >>>>>>> commentary could be nicely recorded for later videoon demand
> >>>>>>> playback.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Just my opinion (and need),
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -gurcharan
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Piers O'Hanlon wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi Derek,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> In principle VIC should be able encode and decode HD video -
> >>>>>>>> using one of the codecs that support such resolutions e.g.
> >>>>>>>> H.264 or h261as.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> One needs to modify some of the configuration code in VIC to
> >>>>>>>> allow selection of larger resolutions (ie HD one needs
> >>>>>>>> something from 720p (1024x720) upwards). And of course an HD
> >>>>>>>> source is necessary. We don't currently have access to any HD
> >>>>>>>> kit so haven't had a chance to work on it but anyone is welcome
>
> >>>>>>>> to try!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>>> Piers
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 2008/10/22 Vine, Derek A <Derek.Vine at usd.edu>:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Hello all,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I am doing some research to spec. up a new AG room, and the
> >>>>>>>>> group with the money is interested in HD video. I see that
> >>>>>>>>> The University of Queensland has an HDV/DV VIC for Linux based
>
> >>>>>>>>> systems already, but we would like to stay with Windows.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I was just wondering what kind of time frame I can give them
> >>>>>>>>> as to when HD will be supported in AG on Windows. In
> >>>>>>>>> particular, an HD VIC that will take its video from a capture
>
> >>>>>>>>> card with an HD-SDI input, like the one attached in the PDF.
> >>>
> >>> I didn't see the PDF, what colorspace does it support? If it's YUV
> >>> 4:2:0, it would probably work with this vic:
> >>>
> >>> http://www.vislab.uq.edu.au/ag3/windows/vic-20081121.zip
> >>>
> >>> (which contained a fix for 480i DV white line artifacts)
> >>>
> >>> Anyway, I started working on adding support for more colorspaces to
> >>> the Windows code a few weeks ago and I might get back to working on
> >>> the code soon.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>> Thank you in advance for your help.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Derek Vine
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Communication Network Specialist
> >>>>>>>>> The University of South Dakota
> >>>>>>>>> 414 East Clark Street
> >>>>>>>>> Vermillion, SD 57069
> >>>>>>>>> (605) 677-8215
> >>>>>>>>> dvine at usd.edu
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> -------------------------
> >> Gurcharan S. Khanna, Ph.D.
> >> Director of Research Computing
> >> Office of the Vice President for Research
> >> http://rc.rit.edu
> >>
> >> Assistant Research Professor, Ph.D. Program
> >> Golisano College of Computing and Information Sciences
> >> http://people.rit.edu/gskpop
> >>
> >> Director, Interactive Collaboration Environments Laboratory,
> >> Center for the Advancing the Study of Cyberinfrastructure
> >> http://icelab.rit.edu
> >> ---
> >> Rochester Institute of Technology
> >> 1 Lomb Memorial Drive
> >> Rochester, New York 14623-5603
> >> Phone: 585-475-7504 ~ Cell: 585-451-8370
> >> Email: gurcharan.khanna at rit.edu
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Douglas Kosovic wrote:
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>>>>>> I, too, am extremely interested in vic supporting HD formats,
> >>>>>>> (including uncompressed!) One of the issues is the encoding
> >>>>>>> latency problem. Not sure there's a nice low latency encoding
> >>>>>>> solution out there yet. Alternatively, we might look at cheap
> >>>>>>> hardware encoders as the answer or HDMI cards to take the input
> >>>>>>> from the camera.
> >>>>>>> Can vic be made to take the output of, say, the BlackMagic
> >>>>>>> Design HDMI card on a Mac?
> >>>
> >>> MacOS X UCL vic works out of the box with the BlackMagic Design HDMI
>
> >>> capture card, but gets scalled down to 640x480 for the large capture
>
> >>> option.
> >>>
> >>> A quick hack to add 1980x1080 support is to modify the following
> >>> width & height lines in video/grabber-macosx.cpp :
> >>> switch (decimate_) {
> >>> case 1: // full-sized
> >>> width_ = SP601_NTSC_WIDTH;
> >>> height_ = SP601_NTSC_HEIGHT;
> >>>
> >>> to:
> >>> width_ = 1920;
> >>> height_ = 1080;
> >>>
> >>> Windows UCL vic on the other hand crashes with the BlackMagic Design
>
> >>> HDMI capture card as it currently doesn't support the BlackMagic YUV
>
> >>> colorspace.
> >>>
> >>> I wouldn't mind adding support for USB HD camcorders that support
> >>> UVC (USB Video Class) H.264 streaming over USB, but I currently
> >>> don't have access to one. Note: Not all USB based camcorders support
>
> >>> UVC (e.g. Sony Hanycams).
> >>>
> >>>>>>> I am currently using AGDV under windows but would like to move
> >>>>>>> to linux and use the HDV/DV linux vic for the DV part; i don't
> >>>>>>> think it's encoding the HDV, just accepting it as input from the
>
> >>>>>>> camera already encoded??? [chris?]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> It is possible to just packetise the compressed data from a
> >>>>>> camera, though as Chris points out it tends to have quite high
> >>>>>> latency. That is why the ultragrid and derivatives used
> >>>>>> uncompressed HD as their sources. VIC doesn't currently support
> >>>>>> mpeg2 nor does support packetisation of an existing compressed
> >>>>>> mpeg2 stream.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> wait, i thought chris' vic supported HDV, which i assume is mp4???
> >>>>>
> >>>> AFAIK most cameras support HDV - which is closely related to
> MPEG-2:
> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDV#HDV_720p
> >>>
> >>> Mostly just the DV firewire based camcorders, the harddisk USB based
>
> >>> ones are now mostly AVCHD (MPEG-4 AVC/H.264).
> >>>
> >>>>> also, how hard/easy would it be for vic to support packetizing
> >>>>> uncompressed HD?
> >>>>>
> >>>> Not that hard - one needs to read the [RTP and codec] specs and
> >>>> code it up - or borrow someone else's....
> >>>>
> >>>> Piers.
> >>>>
> >>>>> :-)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -gurcharan
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Piers
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> My ideal would be to encode the presenter's laptop output and
> >>>>>>> deliver that as just another video stream along side the
> >>>>>>> presenter's video and the audience video and have autoplace lay
> >>>>>>> them out nicely in a framed window, a la Adobe Connect or
> >>>>>>> similar products, so the presenter, the slides, and additional
> >>>>>>> commentary could be nicely recorded for later videoon demand
> >>>>>>> playback.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Just my opinion (and need),
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -gurcharan
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Piers O'Hanlon wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi Derek,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> In principle VIC should be able encode and decode HD video -
> >>>>>>>> using one of the codecs that support such resolutions e.g.
> >>>>>>>> H.264 or h261as.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> One needs to modify some of the configuration code in VIC to
> >>>>>>>> allow selection of larger resolutions (ie HD one needs
> >>>>>>>> something from 720p (1024x720) upwards). And of course an HD
> >>>>>>>> source is necessary. We don't currently have access to any HD
> >>>>>>>> kit so haven't had a chance to work on it but anyone is welcome
>
> >>>>>>>> to try!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>>> Piers
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 2008/10/22 Vine, Derek A <Derek.Vine at usd.edu>:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Hello all,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I am doing some research to spec. up a new AG room, and the
> >>>>>>>>> group with the money is interested in HD video. I see that
> >>>>>>>>> The University of Queensland has an HDV/DV VIC for Linux based
>
> >>>>>>>>> systems already, but we would like to stay with Windows.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I was just wondering what kind of time frame I can give them
> >>>>>>>>> as to when HD will be supported in AG on Windows. In
> >>>>>>>>> particular, an HD VIC that will take its video from a capture
>
> >>>>>>>>> card with an HD-SDI input, like the one attached in the PDF.
> >>>
> >>> I didn't see the PDF, what colorspace does it support? If it's YUV
> >>> 4:2:0, it would probably work with this vic:
> >>>
> >>> http://www.vislab.uq.edu.au/ag3/windows/vic-20081121.zip
> >>>
> >>> (which contained a fix for 480i DV white line artifacts)
> >>>
> >>> Anyway, I started working on adding support for more colorspaces to
> >>> the Windows code a few weeks ago and I might get back to working on
> >>> the code soon.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>> Thank you in advance for your help.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Derek Vine
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Communication Network Specialist
> >>>>>>>>> The University of South Dakota
> >>>>>>>>> 414 East Clark Street
> >>>>>>>>> Vermillion, SD 57069
> >>>>>>>>> (605) 677-8215
> >>>>>>>>> dvine at usd.edu
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> -------------------------
> >> Gurcharan S. Khanna, Ph.D.
> >> Director of Research Computing
> >> Office of the Vice President for Research
> >> http://rc.rit.edu
> >>
> >> Assistant Research Professor, Ph.D. Program
> >> Golisano College of Computing and Information Sciences
> >> http://people.rit.edu/gskpop
> >>
> >> Director, Interactive Collaboration Environments Laboratory,
> >> Center for the Advancing the Study of Cyberinfrastructure
> >> http://icelab.rit.edu
> >> ---
> >> Rochester Institute of Technology
> >> 1 Lomb Memorial Drive
> >> Rochester, New York 14623-5603
> >> Phone: 585-475-7504 ~ Cell: 585-451-8370
> >> Email: gurcharan.khanna at rit.edu
> >>
> >
> >
>
--
Collaboration & Visualization Specialist
UBC Okanagan - http://web.ubc.ca/okanagan
WestGrid - www.westgrid.ca
Ph. 250-807-9979
Todd Zimmerman - todd.zimmerman at ubc.ca
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