[AG-TECH] HD on AG - Capture

Todd Zimmerman todd.zimmerman at ubc.ca
Tue Dec 16 16:55:14 CST 2008


BTW, This card:
http://www.ncast.com/DigiCaptureCard.html

was suggested by someone on this list (can't recall who and the
searchable archives are down - sorry!!) as a possible HD analog capture
device.  I plan on purchasing one soon (although the cost is approx $2k)
with an EVI-HD1.

Anyone used one of these before??

Todd


On Tue, 2008-12-16 at 16:32 -0600, Vine, Derek A wrote:
> I should add that we plan on using Sony EVI HD1 cameras.
> 
> --Derek
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ag-tech-bounces at lists.mcs.anl.gov
> [mailto:ag-tech-bounces at lists.mcs.anl.gov] On Behalf Of Vine, Derek A
> Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 4:29 PM
> To: Gurcharan S. Khanna; Luc Renambot
> Cc: holub at ics.muni.cz; ag-tech
> Subject: Re: [AG-TECH] HD on AG
> 
> So just for some clarity, if I wanted to have 3 or 4 HD video streams
> from Windows XP or Vista, what type of cards are supported/recommended
> and what changes need to be made to VIC?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Derek Vine
> Communication Network Specialist
> The University of South Dakota
> 414 East Clark Street
> Vermillion, SD 57069
> (605) 677-8215
> dvine at usd.edu
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ag-tech-bounces at lists.mcs.anl.gov
> [mailto:ag-tech-bounces at lists.mcs.anl.gov] On Behalf Of Gurcharan S.
> Khanna
> Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 9:43 AM
> To: Luc Renambot
> Cc: holub at ics.muni.cz; ag-tech; Vine, Derek A
> Subject: Re: [AG-TECH] HD on AG
> 
> Luc,
> 
> Yes, UltraGrid does work on Macs, but not mine :-(
> 
> I've been working closely with Holub and team to get it working but it's
> 
> been a long struggle.
> I think we'll get there but in the end, an integrated solution with AG 
> is really what
> I'd like, so I'm eager to try that path, too.
> 
> -gurcharan
> 
> 
> Luc Renambot wrote:
> >
> > On Dec 14, 2008, at 11:12 PM, Gurcharan S. Khanna wrote:
> >
> >> Doug,
> >>
> >> Really? Wow. You mean I can get vic to do uncompressed HD just like 
> >> that?
> >> I've spent months trying to get UltraGrid to work on Macs (I got it 
> >> working on
> >> colleagues machines but not mine!). But the goal was always to 
> >> integrate it with
> >> the AG later. If this could be done now..........hmmmmmm....that 
> >> would be the
> >> answer I've been waiting for.
> >>
> >
> > I think the  Ultragrid version from Csnet/ Masaryk univ. works on Mac:
> >   https://sitola.fi.muni.cz/igrid/index.php/UltraGrid
> >
> >
> > Luc Renambot
> > renambot at uic.edu                 Electronic Visualization Lab (M/C
> 152)
> > EVL Phone (312) 996-3002    University of Illinois at Chicago
> > EVL FAX   (312) 413-7585      851 S. Morgan St. Room 1120 SEO
> > http://www.evl.uic.edu/luc        Chicago, IL 60607-7053
> > \
> >
> >> So, can somebody kind do this quickly and let me try it out? I could 
> >> eventually
> >> get someone to do this but it would be from scratch in terms of their
> 
> >> experience
> >> with this software.
> >>
> >> If this works it would be so great and save so many hours of work for
> 
> >> me.
> >>
> >> Anyone?
> >>
> >> Thanks so much!
> >>
> >> -gurcharan
> >>
> >> Douglas Kosovic wrote:
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>>>>>> I, too, am extremely interested in vic supporting HD formats, 
> >>>>>>> (including uncompressed!) One of the issues is the encoding 
> >>>>>>> latency problem. Not sure there's a nice low latency encoding 
> >>>>>>> solution out there yet. Alternatively, we might look at cheap 
> >>>>>>> hardware encoders as the answer or HDMI cards to take the input 
> >>>>>>> from the camera.
> >>>>>>> Can vic be made to take the output of, say, the BlackMagic 
> >>>>>>> Design HDMI card on a Mac?
> >>>
> >>> MacOS X UCL vic works out of the box with the BlackMagic Design HDMI
> 
> >>> capture card, but gets scalled down to 640x480 for the large capture
> 
> >>> option.
> >>>
> >>> A quick hack to add 1980x1080 support is to modify the following 
> >>> width & height lines in video/grabber-macosx.cpp :
> >>>   switch (decimate_) {
> >>>               case 1: // full-sized
> >>>                       width_ = SP601_NTSC_WIDTH;
> >>>                       height_ = SP601_NTSC_HEIGHT;
> >>>
> >>> to:
> >>>                       width_ = 1920;
> >>>                       height_ = 1080;
> >>>
> >>> Windows UCL vic on the other hand crashes with the BlackMagic Design
> 
> >>> HDMI capture card as it currently doesn't support the BlackMagic YUV
> 
> >>> colorspace.
> >>>
> >>> I wouldn't mind adding support for USB HD camcorders that support 
> >>> UVC (USB Video Class) H.264 streaming over USB, but I currently 
> >>> don't have access to one. Note: Not all USB based camcorders support
> 
> >>> UVC (e.g. Sony Hanycams).
> >>>
> >>>>>>> I am currently using AGDV under windows but would like to move 
> >>>>>>> to linux and use the HDV/DV linux vic for the DV part; i don't 
> >>>>>>> think it's encoding the HDV, just accepting it as input from the
> 
> >>>>>>> camera already encoded??? [chris?]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> It is possible to just packetise the compressed data from a 
> >>>>>> camera, though as Chris points out it tends to have quite high 
> >>>>>> latency. That is why the ultragrid and derivatives used 
> >>>>>> uncompressed HD as their sources. VIC doesn't currently support 
> >>>>>> mpeg2 nor does support packetisation of an existing compressed 
> >>>>>> mpeg2 stream.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> wait, i thought chris' vic supported HDV, which i assume is mp4???
> >>>>>
> >>>> AFAIK most cameras support HDV - which is closely related to
> MPEG-2:
> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDV#HDV_720p
> >>>
> >>> Mostly just the DV firewire based camcorders, the harddisk USB based
> 
> >>> ones are now mostly AVCHD (MPEG-4 AVC/H.264).
> >>>
> >>>>> also, how hard/easy would it be for vic to support packetizing 
> >>>>> uncompressed HD?
> >>>>>
> >>>> Not that hard - one needs to read the [RTP and codec] specs and 
> >>>> code it up - or borrow someone else's....
> >>>>
> >>>> Piers.
> >>>>
> >>>>> :-)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -gurcharan
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Piers
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> My ideal would be to encode the presenter's laptop output and 
> >>>>>>> deliver that as just another video stream along side the 
> >>>>>>> presenter's video and the audience video and have autoplace lay 
> >>>>>>> them out nicely in a framed window, a la Adobe Connect or 
> >>>>>>> similar products, so the presenter, the slides, and additional 
> >>>>>>> commentary could be nicely recorded for later videoon demand 
> >>>>>>> playback.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Just my opinion (and need),
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -gurcharan
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Piers O'Hanlon wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi Derek,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> In principle VIC should be able encode and decode HD video - 
> >>>>>>>> using one of the codecs that support such resolutions e.g. 
> >>>>>>>> H.264 or h261as.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> One needs to modify some of the configuration code in VIC to 
> >>>>>>>> allow selection of larger resolutions (ie HD one needs 
> >>>>>>>> something from 720p (1024x720) upwards). And of course an HD 
> >>>>>>>> source is necessary. We don't currently have access to any HD 
> >>>>>>>> kit so haven't had a chance to work on it but anyone is welcome
> 
> >>>>>>>> to try!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>>> Piers
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 2008/10/22 Vine, Derek A <Derek.Vine at usd.edu>:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Hello all,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I am doing some research to spec. up a new AG room, and the 
> >>>>>>>>> group with the money is interested in HD video.  I see that 
> >>>>>>>>> The University of Queensland has an HDV/DV VIC for Linux based
> 
> >>>>>>>>> systems already, but we would like to stay with Windows.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I was just wondering what kind of time frame I can give them 
> >>>>>>>>> as to when HD will be supported in AG on Windows.  In 
> >>>>>>>>> particular, an HD VIC that will  take its video from a capture
> 
> >>>>>>>>> card with an HD-SDI input, like the one attached in the PDF.
> >>>
> >>> I didn't see the PDF, what colorspace does it support? If it's YUV 
> >>> 4:2:0, it would probably work with this vic:
> >>>
> >>> http://www.vislab.uq.edu.au/ag3/windows/vic-20081121.zip
> >>>
> >>> (which contained a fix for 480i DV white line artifacts)
> >>>
> >>> Anyway, I started working on adding support for more colorspaces to 
> >>> the Windows code a few weeks ago and I might get back to working on 
> >>> the code soon.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>> Thank you in advance for your help.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Derek Vine
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Communication Network Specialist
> >>>>>>>>> The University of South Dakota
> >>>>>>>>> 414 East Clark Street
> >>>>>>>>> Vermillion, SD 57069
> >>>>>>>>> (605) 677-8215
> >>>>>>>>> dvine at usd.edu
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> -- 
> >> -------------------------
> >> Gurcharan S. Khanna, Ph.D.
> >> Director of Research Computing
> >> Office of the Vice President for Research
> >> http://rc.rit.edu
> >>
> >> Assistant Research Professor, Ph.D. Program
> >> Golisano College of Computing and Information Sciences
> >> http://people.rit.edu/gskpop
> >>
> >> Director, Interactive Collaboration Environments Laboratory,
> >> Center for the Advancing the Study of Cyberinfrastructure
> >> http://icelab.rit.edu
> >> ---
> >> Rochester Institute of Technology
> >> 1 Lomb Memorial Drive
> >> Rochester, New York 14623-5603
> >> Phone: 585-475-7504  ~  Cell: 585-451-8370
> >> Email: gurcharan.khanna at rit.edu
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Douglas Kosovic wrote:
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>>>>>> I, too, am extremely interested in vic supporting HD formats, 
> >>>>>>> (including uncompressed!) One of the issues is the encoding 
> >>>>>>> latency problem. Not sure there's a nice low latency encoding 
> >>>>>>> solution out there yet. Alternatively, we might look at cheap 
> >>>>>>> hardware encoders as the answer or HDMI cards to take the input 
> >>>>>>> from the camera.
> >>>>>>> Can vic be made to take the output of, say, the BlackMagic 
> >>>>>>> Design HDMI card on a Mac?
> >>>
> >>> MacOS X UCL vic works out of the box with the BlackMagic Design HDMI
> 
> >>> capture card, but gets scalled down to 640x480 for the large capture
> 
> >>> option.
> >>>
> >>> A quick hack to add 1980x1080 support is to modify the following 
> >>> width & height lines in video/grabber-macosx.cpp :
> >>>   switch (decimate_) {
> >>>               case 1: // full-sized
> >>>                       width_ = SP601_NTSC_WIDTH;
> >>>                       height_ = SP601_NTSC_HEIGHT;
> >>>
> >>> to:
> >>>                       width_ = 1920;
> >>>                       height_ = 1080;
> >>>
> >>> Windows UCL vic on the other hand crashes with the BlackMagic Design
> 
> >>> HDMI capture card as it currently doesn't support the BlackMagic YUV
> 
> >>> colorspace.
> >>>
> >>> I wouldn't mind adding support for USB HD camcorders that support 
> >>> UVC (USB Video Class) H.264 streaming over USB, but I currently 
> >>> don't have access to one. Note: Not all USB based camcorders support
> 
> >>> UVC (e.g. Sony Hanycams).
> >>>
> >>>>>>> I am currently using AGDV under windows but would like to move 
> >>>>>>> to linux and use the HDV/DV linux vic for the DV part; i don't 
> >>>>>>> think it's encoding the HDV, just accepting it as input from the
> 
> >>>>>>> camera already encoded??? [chris?]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> It is possible to just packetise the compressed data from a 
> >>>>>> camera, though as Chris points out it tends to have quite high 
> >>>>>> latency. That is why the ultragrid and derivatives used 
> >>>>>> uncompressed HD as their sources. VIC doesn't currently support 
> >>>>>> mpeg2 nor does support packetisation of an existing compressed 
> >>>>>> mpeg2 stream.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> wait, i thought chris' vic supported HDV, which i assume is mp4???
> >>>>>
> >>>> AFAIK most cameras support HDV - which is closely related to
> MPEG-2:
> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDV#HDV_720p
> >>>
> >>> Mostly just the DV firewire based camcorders, the harddisk USB based
> 
> >>> ones are now mostly AVCHD (MPEG-4 AVC/H.264).
> >>>
> >>>>> also, how hard/easy would it be for vic to support packetizing 
> >>>>> uncompressed HD?
> >>>>>
> >>>> Not that hard - one needs to read the [RTP and codec] specs and 
> >>>> code it up - or borrow someone else's....
> >>>>
> >>>> Piers.
> >>>>
> >>>>> :-)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -gurcharan
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Piers
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> My ideal would be to encode the presenter's laptop output and 
> >>>>>>> deliver that as just another video stream along side the 
> >>>>>>> presenter's video and the audience video and have autoplace lay 
> >>>>>>> them out nicely in a framed window, a la Adobe Connect or 
> >>>>>>> similar products, so the presenter, the slides, and additional 
> >>>>>>> commentary could be nicely recorded for later videoon demand 
> >>>>>>> playback.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Just my opinion (and need),
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -gurcharan
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Piers O'Hanlon wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi Derek,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> In principle VIC should be able encode and decode HD video - 
> >>>>>>>> using one of the codecs that support such resolutions e.g. 
> >>>>>>>> H.264 or h261as.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> One needs to modify some of the configuration code in VIC to 
> >>>>>>>> allow selection of larger resolutions (ie HD one needs 
> >>>>>>>> something from 720p (1024x720) upwards). And of course an HD 
> >>>>>>>> source is necessary. We don't currently have access to any HD 
> >>>>>>>> kit so haven't had a chance to work on it but anyone is welcome
> 
> >>>>>>>> to try!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>>> Piers
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 2008/10/22 Vine, Derek A <Derek.Vine at usd.edu>:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Hello all,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I am doing some research to spec. up a new AG room, and the 
> >>>>>>>>> group with the money is interested in HD video.  I see that 
> >>>>>>>>> The University of Queensland has an HDV/DV VIC for Linux based
> 
> >>>>>>>>> systems already, but we would like to stay with Windows.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I was just wondering what kind of time frame I can give them 
> >>>>>>>>> as to when HD will be supported in AG on Windows.  In 
> >>>>>>>>> particular, an HD VIC that will  take its video from a capture
> 
> >>>>>>>>> card with an HD-SDI input, like the one attached in the PDF.
> >>>
> >>> I didn't see the PDF, what colorspace does it support? If it's YUV 
> >>> 4:2:0, it would probably work with this vic:
> >>>
> >>> http://www.vislab.uq.edu.au/ag3/windows/vic-20081121.zip
> >>>
> >>> (which contained a fix for 480i DV white line artifacts)
> >>>
> >>> Anyway, I started working on adding support for more colorspaces to 
> >>> the Windows code a few weeks ago and I might get back to working on 
> >>> the code soon.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>> Thank you in advance for your help.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Derek Vine
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Communication Network Specialist
> >>>>>>>>> The University of South Dakota
> >>>>>>>>> 414 East Clark Street
> >>>>>>>>> Vermillion, SD 57069
> >>>>>>>>> (605) 677-8215
> >>>>>>>>> dvine at usd.edu
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> -- 
> >> -------------------------
> >> Gurcharan S. Khanna, Ph.D.
> >> Director of Research Computing
> >> Office of the Vice President for Research
> >> http://rc.rit.edu
> >>
> >> Assistant Research Professor, Ph.D. Program
> >> Golisano College of Computing and Information Sciences
> >> http://people.rit.edu/gskpop
> >>
> >> Director, Interactive Collaboration Environments Laboratory,
> >> Center for the Advancing the Study of Cyberinfrastructure
> >> http://icelab.rit.edu
> >> ---
> >> Rochester Institute of Technology
> >> 1 Lomb Memorial Drive
> >> Rochester, New York 14623-5603
> >> Phone: 585-475-7504  ~  Cell: 585-451-8370
> >> Email: gurcharan.khanna at rit.edu
> >>
> >
> >
> 
-- 
Collaboration & Visualization Specialist
UBC Okanagan - http://web.ubc.ca/okanagan
WestGrid - www.westgrid.ca
Ph. 250-807-9979
Todd Zimmerman - todd.zimmerman at ubc.ca



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