[AG-TECH] NCSA venues

Wed Jan 8 04:54:26 CST 2003

In a word, scalability!

We need a strategy - preferably just one plan, in fact - that
accommodates 1000 nodes, 10,000 nodes, 1,000,000
nodes and the virtual venue complement that such numbers of nodes
will require.

I guess telecoms companies have some statistics on how many cross-
point connections (i.e. links) are required for a given community
of phones.  The ratio of virtual venues to nodes might follow the
same sort of curve, with some sort of correction for the fact that
many (most?) AG meetings are multi-site rather than point-to-point.

>From our video conferencing experience here since 1995, we have
found that our most accurate predictions have been made from
intelligent use of historical data.  Hopefully ANL and NCSA are
keeping their bookings history.

Cheers - and Happy New Year to all.

Chris

____________________________________________________________________
Chris Osland                         Office tel: +44 (0) 1235 446565
Digital Media and Access Grid      Medialab tel: +44 (0) 1235 446459
BIT Department             Access Grid room tel: +44 (0) 1235 445666
e-mail:   C.D.Osland at rl.ac.uk               Fax: +44 (0) 1235 445597

CLRC Rutherford Appleton Laboratory (Bldg. R18)
Chilton, DIDCOT, Oxon OX11 0QX, UK

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-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Coffin [mailto:tcoffin at ncsa.uiuc.edu]
Sent: 07 January 2003 20:44
To: Shawn Davis; gurcharan.s.khanna at Dartmouth.EDU; ag-tech at mcs.anl.gov
Subject: Re: [AG-TECH] NCSA venues

hi Shawn

I understand your concerns and they are right on.
We should probablly take this off line but I think there may be
some global issues in overall venue management which this is touching on.

Let me try to give another view. 
I think that this will become a substantial issue as venue servers 
start springing up everywhere (much as nodes have.) How do we get to 
all these sites in an easy to understand way?

Recently I have been starting to populate offices with personal
interface to the grid (pig) machines and have been training 
people how to start up and navigate venues. So...
I now need to teach 3 systems; the ANL virtual venue system, the NCSA
agschedule system and the inSORS system. Currently this is not too
overwhelming. But as various research communities start developing 
the need for their own venues they will (if this trend continues) 
develop their own scheduling and navigation mechanisms. It could
easily spiral out of control with out some kind of navigational system
to link them all together.

Isn't linking the various venues together in one easy to find place
the overall intent as these venues mature into (essentially)
portals for grid computing? 

Isn't secure functionality of the venues linked to the ACLs and 
encryption which would be propegated by the reservation system enbedded 
in the agscheduler or a machine registration system?

Wouldn't that maintain access control and provide an easier 
procedure for navigating nodes?

_____________________________________________
At 02:15 PM 1/7/2003 -0600, Shawn Davis wrote:
   >Hello,
   >The purpose of NCSA's venues isn't quite the same as that of ANL's 
   >venues.  Rather than our venues being used for casual hangouts, they are

   >intended to be used for formal, scheduled meetings.  Our venues server 
   >implementation aids in this goal by providing a way to launch the
meeting, 
   >rather than enter the venue.  Additionally, with further enhancements to

   >our venues server, we are making it more difficult for people to
casually 
   >walk in on a meeting while also providing secure functionality such as
ACLs 
   >and encryption.  These additional features are based around a meeting
and 
   >its designated participants.
   >Could you explain why you'd like to see our venues linked directly on
ANL's 
   >venues server?
   >To preserve the concept of joining a meeting and to maintain access
control 
   >(as much as can be provided with AG 1.x), I'd prefer not to have our
venues 
   >added to ANL's venues server.
   >As always, I'm open to opposing views and additional suggestions.
   >-Shawn
   >
   >
   >At 02:17 PM 1/7/2003 -0500, Gurcharan S. Khanna wrote:
   >>--- Tom Coffin wrote:
   >>Would it be possible to get links to the NCSA venues from the
   >>ANL Virtual Venue lists - maybe as another level in the
   >>Instiututional venues under NCSA?????
   >>__________________________________________________________
   >>Tom Coffin .......................... tcoffin at ncsa.uiuc.edu
   >>--- end of quote ---
   >>
   >>hi,
   >>
   >>i'd second that request.
   >>
   >>thanks,
   >>
   >>-gurcharan
   >>===========================
   >>Gurcharan S. Khanna, Associate Director
   >>Research Computing, Dartmouth College
   >>gkhanna at dartmouth.edu
   >>office: 603-646-1644
   >>http://research.dartmouth.edu/
   >>http://www.dartmouth.edu/~gkhanna
   >
   >
   >

___________________________________________________________
Tom Coffin .......................... tcoffin at ncsa.uiuc.edu