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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 08/29/2014 08:31 AM, Matthew Knepley
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAMYG4GmJw31OysypLOXsYo3rwHkG7PVs8z1Hr=G4NX95pRQ=Xw@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div class="gmail_extra">
          <div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 9:35 AM,
            Dominic Meiser <span dir="ltr"><<a
                moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:dmeiser@txcorp.com"
                target="_blank">dmeiser@txcorp.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
              .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
              <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
                <div class="">
                  <div>On 08/29/2014 08:08 AM, Matthew Knepley wrote:<br>
                  </div>
                  <blockquote type="cite">
                    <div dir="ltr">
                      <div class="gmail_extra">
                        <div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at
                          8:35 AM, Christophe Ortiz <span dir="ltr"><<a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:christophe.ortiz@ciemat.es"
                              target="_blank">christophe.ortiz@ciemat.es</a>></span>
                          wrote:<br>
                          <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                            style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
                            <div dir="ltr">Sorry about that.
                              <div><br>
                              </div>
                              <div>Please find in attachment the
                                configure.log file. Hope it will help
                                you find the error.</div>
                            </div>
                          </blockquote>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>Here is the problem:</div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <div>Possible ERROR while running
                              preprocessor: nvcc warning : The
                              'compute_10' and 'sm_10' architectures are
                              deprecated, and may be removed in a future
                              release.</div>
                            <div>error message = {nvcc warning : The
                              'compute_10' and 'sm_10' architectures are
                              deprecated, and may be removed in a future
                              release.</div>
                            <div>}</div>
                          </div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>meaning the nvcc compiler does not "work"
                            as provided. Here is a workaround:</div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>     --with-cudac='nvcc --arch=sm_35'</div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>Dominic, I think that thrust.py should
                            depend on cuda.py. Do you know why it does
                            not?</div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </blockquote>
                </div>
                In principle you are right, thrust.py should depend on
                cuda.py.<br>
                <br>
                However, in my opinion, thrust.py should go away as a
                separate package altogether. Thrust is shipped as part
                of any recent version of the cuda toolkit (I forget
                since which version, Paul might know) and it's always
                installed in $CUDA_TOOLKIT_ROOT/include/thrust. Thus we
                can automatically deduct the thrust location from the
                cuda location. Thrust should be considered part of cuda.<br>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>That does not mean the configure modules should be
              organized that way. Thrust is a package included in CUDA,
              thus</div>
            <div>
              it should have an independent module, but depend on the
              CUDA module.</div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    I see your point. If you keep thrust as a module it should
    definitely depend on cuda. Default guesses for its location should
    then be generated based on the cuda location. I can work on this.<br>
    <br>
    Dominic<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAMYG4GmJw31OysypLOXsYo3rwHkG7PVs8z1Hr=G4NX95pRQ=Xw@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div class="gmail_extra">
          <div class="gmail_quote">
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>   Matt</div>
            <div> </div>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
              .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
              <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> Cheers,<br>
                Dominic
                <div>
                  <div class="h5"><br>
                    <blockquote type="cite">
                      <div dir="ltr">
                        <div class="gmail_extra">
                          <div class="gmail_quote">
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>  Thanks,</div>
                            <div> <br>
                            </div>
                            <div>      Matt</div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div> </div>
                            <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                              style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
                              <div dir="ltr">
                                <div>Christophe</div>
                              </div>
                              <div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
                                <div>CIEMAT<br>
                                  Laboratorio Nacional de Fusión por
                                  Confinamiento Magnético<br>
                                  Unidad de Materiales
                                  <div>Edificio 2 - Planta 0 - Despacho
                                    28m<br>
                                    Avenida Complutense 40,<br>
                                    28040 Madrid, Spain<br>
                                    Tel: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      href="tel:%2B34%2091496%202582"
                                      value="+34914962582"
                                      target="_blank">+34 91496 2582</a><br>
                                    Fax: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      href="tel:%2B34%2091346%206442"
                                      value="+34913466442"
                                      target="_blank">+34 91346 6442</a><br>
                                    <br>
                                    --<br>
                                    <span
                                      style="color:rgb(0,128,0);font-family:Webdings;font-size:x-large">Q</span> 
                                    <div><span
                                        style="white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Por

                                        favor, piense en el medio
                                        ambiente antes de imprimir este
                                        mensaje.</span>
                                      <div> <span
                                          style="white-space:pre-wrap">Please

                                          consider the environment
                                          before printing this email.</span></div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                                <div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 29,
                                  2014 at 3:28 PM, Matthew Knepley <span
                                    dir="ltr"><<a
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      href="mailto:knepley@gmail.com"
                                      target="_blank">knepley@gmail.com</a>></span>
                                  wrote:<br>
                                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                    style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                    <div dir="ltr">Always attach
                                      configure.log or we cannot see
                                      what went wrong.
                                      <div><br>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>    Matt</div>
                                    </div>
                                    <div class="gmail_extra">
                                      <div>
                                        <div><br>
                                          <br>
                                          <div class="gmail_quote">On
                                            Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 2:35
                                            AM, Christophe Ortiz <span
                                              dir="ltr"><<a
                                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                href="mailto:christophe.ortiz@ciemat.es"
                                                target="_blank">christophe.ortiz@ciemat.es</a>></span>
                                            wrote:<br>
                                            <blockquote
                                              class="gmail_quote"
                                              style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                              <div dir="ltr">
                                                <div class="gmail_extra">
                                                  <div
                                                    class="gmail_quote">
                                                    <div>Hi Dominic and
                                                      Paul,</div>
                                                    <div><br>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div>Thanks for your
                                                      answers.
                                                      Unfortunately, it
                                                      did not work. Same
                                                      error message
                                                      related to the
                                                      thrust directory:</div>
                                                    <div><br>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div><br>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <div>./configure
                                                        --with-x=1
                                                        --with-mpi=0
                                                        --with-cc=icc
                                                        --with-cxx=icpc
                                                        --with-clanguage=cxx

                                                        --with-fc=ifort
                                                        --with-cuda=1
                                                        --with-cuda-dir=/usr/local/cuda-6.0
                                                        --with-cuda-arch=sm_35

                                                        --with-thrust=1
                                                        --with-thrust-dir=/usr/local/cuda-6.0/include

                                                        --with-cusp=1
                                                        --with-cusp-dir=/usr/local/cuda-6.0/include
                                                        --with-debugging=1

                                                        --with-scalar-type=real

                                                        --with-precision=double

--download-fblaslapack</div>
                                                      <div>===============================================================================</div>
                                                      <div>           
                                                         Configuring
                                                        PETSc to compile
                                                        on your system  
                                                                       
                                                            </div>
                                                      <div>===============================================================================</div>
                                                      <div>TESTING:
                                                        checkInclude
                                                        from
                                                        config.headers(config/BuildSystem/config/headers.py:86)
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                       
                                                                     
 *******************************************************************************</div>
                                                      <div>       
                                                         UNABLE to
                                                        CONFIGURE with
                                                        GIVEN OPTIONS  
                                                         (see
                                                        configure.log
                                                        for details):</div>
                                                      <div>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
                                                      <div>--with-thrust-dir=/usr/local/cuda-6.0/include

                                                        did not work</div>
                                                      <div>*******************************************************************************</div>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div><br>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div><br>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div>I do not see
                                                      what else to
                                                      do...I have a
                                                      standard CUDA
                                                      installation that
                                                      came with thrust.</div>
                                                    <div>I am using
                                                      ubuntu 12.04, I do
                                                      not know if that
                                                      could help.</div>
                                                    <div>I tried with
                                                      PETSc 3.4.1 and
                                                      3.5.1. Same
                                                      problem.</div>
                                                    <div><br>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div>Christophe</div>
                                                    <div><br>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div><br>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div><br>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div> </div>
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      class="gmail_quote"
                                                      style="margin:0px
                                                      0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">------------------------------<br>
                                                      <br>
                                                      Message: 3<br>
                                                      Date: Thu, 28 Aug
                                                      2014 08:38:12
                                                      -0600<br>
                                                      From: Dominic
                                                      Meiser <<a
                                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dmeiser@txcorp.com" target="_blank">dmeiser@txcorp.com</a>><br>
                                                      To: <a
                                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:petsc-users@mcs.anl.gov" target="_blank">petsc-users@mcs.anl.gov</a><br>
                                                      Subject: Re:
                                                      [petsc-users]
                                                      Unable to
                                                      configure PETSc
                                                      with CUDA:<br>
                                                              Problem
                                                      with thrust
                                                      directory<br>
                                                      Message-ID: <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:53FF3ED4.1090002@txcorp.com"
                                                        target="_blank">53FF3ED4.1090002@txcorp.com</a>><br>
                                                      Content-Type:
                                                      text/plain;
                                                      charset=UTF-8;
                                                      format=flowed<br>
                                                      <br>
                                                      Can you try
                                                      configuring with<br>
                                                      <br>
--with-thrust-dir=/usr/local/cuda-6.0/include<br>
                                                      <br>
                                                      I.e. omit the
                                                      'thrust' at the
                                                      end of the path.
                                                      Probably you'll
                                                      need the<br>
                                                      same fix with
                                                      cusp:<br>
                                                      <br>
--with-cusp-dir=/usr/local/cuda-6.0/include<br>
                                                      <br>
                                                      Cheers,<br>
                                                      Dominic<br>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                    <div><br>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div> </div>
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      class="gmail_quote"
                                                      style="margin:0px
                                                      0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
                                                      On 08/28/2014
                                                      08:13 AM,
                                                      Christophe Ortiz
                                                      wrote:<br>
                                                      > Hi all,<br>
                                                      ><br>
                                                      > I have
                                                      implemented a
                                                      problem of coupled
                                                      diffusion
                                                      equations in 1D<br>
                                                      > using PETSc.
                                                      I was able to
                                                      configure PETSC
                                                      with and without
                                                      MPI. The<br>
                                                      > code runs
                                                      well in both
                                                      cases.<br>
                                                      ><br>
                                                      > Now I would
                                                      like to test CUDA
                                                      but I am unable to
                                                      configure it. I
                                                      get<br>
                                                      > an error
                                                      message related to
                                                      thrust directory.<br>
                                                      ><br>
                                                      > The options I
                                                      use to configure
                                                      are the following:<br>
                                                      ><br>
                                                      > --with-x=1
                                                      --with-mpi=0
                                                      --with-cc=icc
                                                      --with-cxx=icpc<br>
                                                      >
                                                      --with-clanguage=cxx
                                                      --with-fc=ifort
                                                      --with-cuda=1<br>
                                                      >
                                                      --with-cuda-dir=/usr/local/cuda-6.0
--with-cuda-arch=sm_35<br>
                                                      >
                                                      --with-cudac=/usr/local/cuda/bin/nvcc
                                                      --with-thrust=1<br>
                                                      >
                                                      --with-thrust-dir=/usr/local/cuda-6.0/include/thrust
                                                      --with-cusp=1<br>
                                                      >
                                                      --with-cusp-dir=/usr/local/cuda-6.0/include/cusp<br>
                                                      >
                                                      --download-txpetscgpu=1
                                                      --with-debugging=1
--with-scalar-type=real<br>
                                                      >
                                                      --with-precision=double
--download-f-blas-lapack<br>
                                                      ><br>
                                                      > The error
                                                      message I get is:<br>
                                                      ><br>
                                                      >
===============================================================================<br>
                                                      >             
                                                      Configuring PETSc
                                                      to compile on your
                                                      system<br>
                                                      >
===============================================================================<br>
                                                      > TESTING:
                                                      checkInclude from<br>
                                                      >
                                                      config.headers(config/BuildSystem/config/headers.py:86)<br>
                                                      >
*******************************************************************************<br>
                                                      >         
                                                      UNABLE to
                                                      CONFIGURE with
                                                      GIVEN OPTIONS   
                                                      (see configure.log<br>
                                                      > for details):<br>
                                                      >
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
                                                      >
                                                      --with-thrust-dir=/usr/local/cuda-6.0/include/thrust
                                                      did not work<br>
                                                      >
*******************************************************************************<br>
                                                      ><br>
                                                      ><br>
                                                      > Did I miss
                                                      something ?<br>
                                                      > My GPU is a
                                                      GeForce Titan
                                                      Black and I am
                                                      using CUDA 6.0.<br>
                                                      ><br>
                                                      > Many thanks
                                                      in advance for
                                                      your help.<br>
                                                      > Christophe<br>
                                                      ><br>
                                                      <br>
                                                      <br>
                                                      --<br>
                                                      Dominic Meiser<br>
                                                      Tech-X Corporation<br>
                                                      5621 Arapahoe
                                                      Avenue<br>
                                                      Boulder, CO 80303<br>
                                                      USA<br>
                                                      Telephone: <a
                                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:303-996-2036" value="+13039962036" target="_blank">303-996-2036</a><br>
                                                      Fax: <a
                                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:303-448-7756" value="+13034487756" target="_blank">303-448-7756</a><br>
                                                      <a
                                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.txcorp.com" target="_blank">www.txcorp.com</a><br>
                                                      <br>
                                                      <br>
                                                      <br>
------------------------------<br>
                                                      <br>
                                                      Message: 4<br>
                                                      Date: Thu, 28 Aug
                                                      2014 08:30:40
                                                      -0600<br>
                                                      From: Paul
                                                      Mullowney <<a
                                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:paulmullowney@gmail.com" target="_blank">paulmullowney@gmail.com</a>><br>
                                                      To: Dominic Meiser
                                                      <<a
                                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dmeiser@txcorp.com" target="_blank">dmeiser@txcorp.com</a>><br>
                                                      Cc: <a
                                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:petsc-users@mcs.anl.gov" target="_blank">petsc-users@mcs.anl.gov</a><br>
                                                      Subject: Re:
                                                      [petsc-users]
                                                      Unable to
                                                      configure PETSc
                                                      with CUDA:<br>
                                                              Problem
                                                      with thrust
                                                      directory<br>
                                                      Message-ID:<br>
                                                             
                                                      <CAMJ8fwroFUxG-rpbMpaJEw=<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                        href="mailto:0aQdyNm9NMxMzsxWVGGPWZqhGCQ@mail.gmail.com"
                                                        target="_blank">0aQdyNm9NMxMzsxWVGGPWZqhGCQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
                                                      Content-Type:
                                                      text/plain;
                                                      charset="utf-8"<br>
                                                      <br>
                                                      Also, get rid of
                                                      --download-txpetscgpu=1.
                                                      That doesn't exist
                                                      anymore.<br>
                                                      -Paul<br>
                                                      <br>
                                                      <br>
                                                      On Thu, Aug 28,
                                                      2014 at 8:38 AM,
                                                      Dominic Meiser
                                                      <<a
                                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dmeiser@txcorp.com" target="_blank">dmeiser@txcorp.com</a>>

                                                      wrote:<br>
                                                      <br>
                                                      > Can you try
                                                      configuring with<br>
                                                      ><br>
                                                      >
                                                      --with-thrust-dir=/usr/local/cuda-6.0/include<br>
                                                      ><br>
                                                      > I.e. omit the
                                                      'thrust' at the
                                                      end of the path.
                                                      Probably you'll
                                                      need the<br>
                                                      > same fix with
                                                      cusp:<br>
                                                      ><br>
                                                      >
                                                      --with-cusp-dir=/usr/local/cuda-6.0/include<br>
                                                      ><br>
                                                      > Cheers,<br>
                                                      > Dominic<br>
                                                      ><br>
                                                      ><br>
                                                      > On 08/28/2014
                                                      08:13 AM,
                                                      Christophe Ortiz
                                                      wrote:<br>
                                                      ><br>
                                                      >> Hi all,<br>
                                                      >><br>
                                                      >> I have
                                                      implemented a
                                                      problem of coupled
                                                      diffusion
                                                      equations in 1D
                                                      using<br>
                                                      >> PETSc. I
                                                      was able to
                                                      configure PETSC
                                                      with and without
                                                      MPI. The code runs<br>
                                                      >> well in
                                                      both cases.<br>
                                                      >><br>
                                                      >> Now I
                                                      would like to test
                                                      CUDA but I am
                                                      unable to
                                                      configure it. I
                                                      get an<br>
                                                      >> error
                                                      message related to
                                                      thrust directory.<br>
                                                      >><br>
                                                      >> The
                                                      options I use to
                                                      configure are the
                                                      following:<br>
                                                      >><br>
                                                      >>
                                                      --with-x=1
                                                      --with-mpi=0
                                                      --with-cc=icc
                                                      --with-cxx=icpc<br>
                                                      >>
                                                      --with-clanguage=cxx
                                                      --with-fc=ifort
                                                      --with-cuda=1<br>
                                                      >>
                                                      --with-cuda-dir=/usr/local/cuda-6.0
--with-cuda-arch=sm_35<br>
                                                      >>
                                                      --with-cudac=/usr/local/cuda/bin/nvcc
                                                      --with-thrust=1<br>
                                                      >>
                                                      --with-thrust-dir=/usr/local/cuda-6.0/include/thrust
                                                      --with-cusp=1<br>
                                                      >>
                                                      --with-cusp-dir=/usr/local/cuda-6.0/include/cusp
--download-txpetscgpu=1<br>
                                                      >>
                                                      --with-debugging=1
                                                      --with-scalar-type=real

--with-precision=double<br>
                                                      >>
                                                      --download-f-blas-lapack<br>
                                                      >><br>
                                                      >> The error
                                                      message I get is:<br>
                                                      >><br>
                                                      >>
                                                      ============================================================<br>
                                                      >>
                                                      ===================<br>
                                                      >>         
                                                          Configuring
                                                      PETSc to compile
                                                      on your system<br>
                                                      >>
                                                      ============================================================<br>
                                                      >>
                                                      ===================<br>
                                                      >> TESTING:
                                                      checkInclude from
config.headers(config/<br>
                                                      >>
                                                      BuildSystem/config/headers.py:86)
******************************<br>
                                                      >>
                                                      *************************************************<br>
                                                      >>         
                                                      UNABLE to
                                                      CONFIGURE with
                                                      GIVEN OPTIONS   
                                                      (see configure.log
                                                      for<br>
                                                      >> details):<br>
                                                      >>
                                                      ------------------------------------------------------------<br>
                                                      >>
                                                      -------------------<br>
                                                      >>
                                                      --with-thrust-dir=/usr/local/cuda-6.0/include/thrust
                                                      did not work<br>
                                                      >>
                                                      ************************************************************<br>
                                                      >>
                                                      *******************<br>
                                                      >><br>
                                                      >><br>
                                                      >> Did I
                                                      miss something ?<br>
                                                      >> My GPU is
                                                      a GeForce Titan
                                                      Black and I am
                                                      using CUDA 6.0.<br>
                                                      >><br>
                                                      >> Many
                                                      thanks in advance
                                                      for your help.<br>
                                                      >>
                                                      Christophe<br>
                                                      >><br>
                                                      >><br>
                                                      ><br>
                                                      > --<br>
                                                      > Dominic
                                                      Meiser<br>
                                                      > Tech-X
                                                      Corporation<br>
                                                      > 5621 Arapahoe
                                                      Avenue<br>
                                                      > Boulder, CO
                                                      80303<br>
                                                      > USA<br>
                                                      > Telephone: <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:303-996-2036" value="+13039962036"
                                                        target="_blank">303-996-2036</a><br>
                                                      > Fax: <a
                                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:303-448-7756" value="+13034487756" target="_blank">303-448-7756</a><br>
                                                      > <a
                                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.txcorp.com" target="_blank">www.txcorp.com</a><br>
                                                      ><br>
                                                      ><br>
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                                                      End of petsc-users
                                                      Digest, Vol 68,
                                                      Issue 63<br>
*******************************************<br>
                                                      <br>
----------------------------<br>
                                                      Confidencialidad:<br>
                                                      Este mensaje y sus
                                                      ficheros adjuntos
                                                      se dirige
                                                      exclusivamente a
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                                                      confidencial. Si
                                                      no es vd. el
                                                      destinatario
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                                                      la utilización,
                                                      divulgación y/o
                                                      copia sin
                                                      autorización está
                                                      prohibida en
                                                      virtud de la
                                                      legislación
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                                                      recibido este
                                                      mensaje por error,
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                                                      <br>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <br>
                                                </div>
                                              </div>
                                            </blockquote>
                                          </div>
                                          <br>
                                          <br clear="all">
                                          <span><font color="#888888">
                                              <div><br>
                                              </div>
                                            </font></span></div>
                                      </div>
                                      <span><font color="#888888"><span><font
                                              color="#888888">-- <br>
                                              What most experimenters
                                              take for granted before
                                              they begin their
                                              experiments is infinitely
                                              more interesting than any
                                              results to which their
                                              experiments lead.<br>
                                              -- Norbert Wiener </font></span></font></span></div>
                                  </blockquote>
                                </div>
                                <br>
                              </div>
                            </blockquote>
                          </div>
                          <br>
                          <br clear="all">
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          -- <br>
                          What most experimenters take for granted
                          before they begin their experiments is
                          infinitely more interesting than any results
                          to which their experiments lead.<br>
                          -- Norbert Wiener </div>
                      </div>
                    </blockquote>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <pre cols="72">-- 
Dominic Meiser
Tech-X Corporation
5621 Arapahoe Avenue
Boulder, CO 80303
USA
Telephone: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:303-996-2036" value="+13039962036" target="_blank">303-996-2036</a>
Fax: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:303-448-7756" value="+13034487756" target="_blank">303-448-7756</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.txcorp.com" target="_blank">www.txcorp.com</a></pre>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
          <br>
          <br clear="all">
          <div><br>
          </div>
          -- <br>
          What most experimenters take for granted before they begin
          their experiments is infinitely more interesting than any
          results to which their experiments lead.<br>
          -- Norbert Wiener
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Dominic Meiser
Tech-X Corporation
5621 Arapahoe Avenue
Boulder, CO 80303
USA
Telephone: 303-996-2036
Fax: 303-448-7756
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.txcorp.com">www.txcorp.com</a></pre>
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