<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=us-ascii"><base href="x-msg://5600/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><br></div>ASCR has stated that an outcome of the SWP4XS workshop <div> <a href="http://www.orau.gov/swproductivity2014" style="color: purple; ">http://www.orau.gov/swproductivity2014</a></div><div>will be a report that summarizes challenges/opportunities in extreme-scale scientific software productivity and recommends short-term and long-term research directions. </div><div><div><br></div><div>My understanding of what ASCR wants from our current small project is a document on ideas for addressing a subset of these challenges: vision for next-generation interoperable HPC software -- not covering everything in software productivity and not providing immediate/short-term fixes for current codes.</div><div><br></div><div>There is a distinction between what ASCR wants as a deliverable for this current project (recognizing limited time/resources/scope), and what at least some of ASCR wants from us + the broader community over the longer term. In particular, ASCR is not asking us to engage the broader community in this little project -- though they want that over the longer term. And ASCR is not asking us to fix current interoperability issues within the scope of this little project. </div><div><br></div><div>As Jed said, just writing a document does not engage the community in working toward long-term solutions. But a document could be a starting point for a broader discussion. And identifying current interoperability challenges + ideas for solutions is an important part of this.</div><div><br></div><div>I concur with Barry's point about the importance not imposing a 1-size-fits-all model so that the diversity of approaches can continue to thrive.</div><div><br></div><div>Lois</div><div><br><div><div>On Nov 25, 2013, at 8:15 PM, "Bartlett, Roscoe A." <<a href="mailto:bartlettra@ornl.gov">bartlettra@ornl.gov</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">This sounds a lot like the focus of the SWP4XS workshop taking place in January. How is the goal for this document not basically the scope of the workshop? I would guess the workshop will have a broader scope however.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">-Ross<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></div><div style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-width: 1.5pt; border-left-color: blue; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt; position: static; z-index: auto; "><div><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); padding: 3pt 0in 0in; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:petsc-trilinos-discussion-bounces@lists.mcs.anl.gov" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">petsc-trilinos-discussion-bounces@lists.mcs.anl.gov</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:petsc-<a href="mailto:trilinos-discussion-bounces@lists.mcs.anl.gov" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">trilinos-discussion-bounces@lists.mcs.anl.gov</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Lois Curfman McInnes<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, November 25, 2013 5:44 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Heroux, Michael A<br><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Pawlowski, Roger P;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:petsc-trilinos-discussion@lists.mcs.anl.gov" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">petsc-trilinos-discussion@lists.mcs.anl.gov</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Petsc-trilinos-discussion] Status update, summary remarks<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">My take-aways from today's chat with Thomas:<o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">The main deliverable that ASCR wants from us in this current project is a (short) document that provides a long-term vision for interoperable use of a variety of high-performance scientific software. ASCR's primary concern is for us to develop a document that could be used as a starting point for engaging the broader DOE/HPC community in determining approach that would enable the combined use of lots of different HPC software over the long term. To get started, Mike and I will iterate with Thomas to come up with a set of basic requirements/principles at a sufficiently abstract level to help nail down the scope more specifically. And then we can further evolve this and all contribute to fleshing out long-term vision ideas.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">The recent discussions about concrete issues in the combined use of PETSc and Trilinos are indeed a valuable exchange of information --- useful for at a practical level for existing apps and future plans. However, tackling current interoperability challenges in existing codes and other near-term issues is not ASCR's priority in this particular assignment (though of course those issues inform the vision -- and we might want to pursue that to some extent as a separate activity outside the scope of the longer-term vision project).<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Best,<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Lois<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">On Nov 25, 2013, at 11:43 AM, "Heroux, Michael A" <<a href="mailto:maherou@sandia.gov" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">maherou@sandia.gov</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><br><br><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; ">Lois McInnes and I are talking with Thomas Ndousse-Fetter today to see if<br>we can get a better sense of what he wants from these discussions. He has<br>some app teams (unnamed) who are apparently driving the request for easier<br>access to DOE library capabilities. Lois and I are arguing that we need<br>direct access to these people in order to make sure we are focusing on the<br>right issues.</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></body></html>