<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><DIV class="MsoNormal"><A name="OLE_LINK1"></A><A name="OLE_LINK2"><SPAN style="mso-bookmark:OLE_LINK1">Mike,</SPAN></A></DIV><DIV class="MsoNormal"><SPAN style="mso-bookmark:OLE_LINK2"><SPAN style="mso-bookmark: OLE_LINK1"> <O:P></O:P></SPAN></SPAN></DIV><DIV class="MsoNormal"><SPAN style="mso-bookmark:OLE_LINK2"><SPAN style="mso-bookmark: OLE_LINK1">You seemed to have missed my point, I started out my message stating, “This is Great” and concluded with “Please keep contributing!” That being said my concerns of fragmenting the community were that this site should be </SPAN></SPAN><A href="http://www.accessgrid.org"><SPAN style="mso-bookmark:OLE_LINK2"><SPAN style="mso-bookmark:OLE_LINK1">accessgrid.org</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN style="mso-bookmark:OLE_LINK2"><SPAN style="mso-bookmark:OLE_LINK1"></SPAN></SPAN></A><SPAN style="mso-bookmark:OLE_LINK2"><SPAN style="mso-bookmark:OLE_LINK1"> community website, which I have already talked to Darran about and is alluded to in the mail he sent. I only raised the option of a different technology as a discussion point since its something we started to look at. My thought being if this is to be a community site, folks may want to have a say in the underlying technology. If the community deems the underlying technology is Plone that’s fine by me as long as it enables contribution by community.</SPAN></SPAN></DIV><DIV class="MsoNormal"><SPAN style="mso-bookmark:OLE_LINK2"><SPAN style="mso-bookmark: OLE_LINK1"> <O:P></O:P></SPAN></SPAN></DIV><DIV class="MsoNormal"><SPAN style="mso-bookmark:OLE_LINK2"><SPAN style="mso-bookmark: OLE_LINK1">Keep contributing!</SPAN></SPAN></DIV><DIV class="MsoNormal"><SPAN style="mso-bookmark:OLE_LINK2"><SPAN style="mso-bookmark: OLE_LINK1"> <O:P></O:P></SPAN></SPAN></DIV><DIV class="MsoNormal"><SPAN style="mso-bookmark:OLE_LINK2"><SPAN style="mso-bookmark: OLE_LINK1">Cheers </SPAN></SPAN></DIV><DIV class="MsoNormal"><SPAN style="mso-bookmark:OLE_LINK2"><SPAN style="mso-bookmark: OLE_LINK1">Mike</SPAN></SPAN></DIV><BR><DIV><DIV>On May 24, 2005, at 10:16 AM, michael j daw wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Mike,</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From what I see, Darran's site looks excellent and is just what the community needs (i.e. not as a prototype, or a good start, but the real thing). And, the best thing of all, it's come directly from the community, spontaneously! Like its unplanned announcement, it may start to have a momentum of its own... (Watch out for Manchester software to be posted there soon.)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">There's no need to fragment the community - why don't you use it as your means of communication with the community (e.g. software releases, other ANL-specific info)? That way, you don't have to spend any more effort worrying about revamping the website because someone's done it for you. Which means more time for you to concentrate on getting AG3 out there. This can only help your "small overworked Argonne team".<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">The best community involvement is bottom-up. I don't believe the top-down model of community involvement can ever really work.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I for one am very excited about what Darran has done.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Mike</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">-----Original Message-----</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From: <A href="mailto:owner-ag-tech@mcs.anl.gov">owner-ag-tech@mcs.anl.gov</A><SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">[<A href="mailto:owner-ag-tech@mcs.anl.gov">mailto:owner-ag-tech@mcs.anl.gov</A>] On Behalf Of Michael E. Papka</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Sent: 24 May 2005 05:43</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">To: Darran Edmundson</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Cc: Michael E. Papka; <A href="mailto:ag-tech@mcs.anl.gov">ag-tech@mcs.anl.gov</A></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Subject: Re: [AG-TECH] AG Community Portal prototype launched ...</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Darran,</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">This is great.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>As we have discussed the plan is to move the physical</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">home of accessgrid.org to the University to remove some of the</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">restrictions placed on access to the site that having it at ANL has</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">caused, this is currently in the works.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">On that note, we would like to see volunteers fr congeasus om the</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">community take stewardship of different areas on the new and improved</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">community site to lift the burden off the "small overworked Argonne</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">team". <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>Mary Fritsch who has left the core AG group at Argonne to</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">move to a<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>new exciting position will still be overseeing the site,</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">but<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>hopefully now with help from the community.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>The work you've</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">done on the prototype site looks like a good start; we'd like to have</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">you help spin up the community site at accessgrid.org. Please let us</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">know if you're interested (this is with the initial setup, it is</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">assumed the community will help once the site is in place). We are</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">currently evaluating the Mambo server (<A href="http://www.mamboserver.com">http://www.mamboserver.com</A>/)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">for the new site, this is based on recommendations from different</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">people, but if the community has a strong leaning towards another</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">system let us know.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">The overall goal is not to fragment the community with multiple</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">sites, the <A href="http://www.accessgrid.org">www.accessgrid.org</A> site has always intended to be a</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">community site, we have made a conscious effort to remove any ANL</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">slant.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>We'd like the accessgrid.org site continue to serve as the</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">community site, and be developed by the community.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">There are more efforts underway to increase community involvement,</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">look for announcements in the next month.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Please keep contributing!</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Cheers</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Mike</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">On May 23, 2005, at 5:11 AM, Darran Edmundson wrote:</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Well, I was hoping to keep it under wraps for another week or so</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">but the word is out ...</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">There was a lot of discussion at the recent Retreat regarding</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the lack of community input.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>We are all painfully aware of</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the shortcomings in the current AG, and yet we are waiting for</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the small overworked Argonne team to deliver our software utopia.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">The fact is, we as a community need to be more involved - in</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">design, development, testing, bug reporting and bug fixing,</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">documentation, feature requests, human factors, etc.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">None of this can happen without effective communication.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">But how does one submit a tutorial, update or add an "FAQ",</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">hook up with other developers to collaborate on a shared app,</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">contribute to the software roadmap, or even just find the latest</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">version</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">of a node service?</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">As a response to this, I've whipped up a prototype web site to</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">stimulate discussion on these issues:</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN><A href="http://slap.anu.edu.au:8200">http://slap.anu.edu.au:8200</A>/</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">The downloads section has been populated with a number</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">of shared apps and services.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>(Note, Tom Uram did *not*</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">put up the AGTk, I did that as a demo before inviting Argonne</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">to try out the site.) <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>Under the forums section, a number of</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">discussion</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">areas have been created.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>One possible option would be to populate</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">these with the AGTech archives sifted into appropriate categories</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">and gateway future traffic? <SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>The missing item, and perhaps the</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">most import, is the documentation section.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>This will be modeled on</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the "documentation" section of the main Plone website:<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>http://</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">plone.org/.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Plone allows members to individually submit tutorial, FAQs,</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">How-To's, events, news items, etc. that are optionally reviewed</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">by the site admins.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>It's a powerful paradigm.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Please, have a look and offer your constructive criticisms,</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">wish-lists, etc.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>If you'd like to play a more substantial role in</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the nitty gritty of getting the site up and running, please contact</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">me directly at <A href="mailto:darran.edmundson@anu.edu.au">darran.edmundson@anu.edu.au</A>.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Finally,<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>let me publicly state that within a few months, I would</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">like to</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">have the site either (i) run under the governance of the<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></DIV> <BR></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">community at</DIV> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">large or (ii) used in a (planned?) redesign of the main</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">AccessGrid.org.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Cheers,</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Darran.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Darran Edmundson (<A href="mailto:darran.edmundson@anu.edu.au">darran.edmundson@anu.edu.au</A>)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">ANU Supercomputer Facility Vizlab</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Australian National University, Canberra, ACT 2600</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">tel: +61 2 6125-0517<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>fax: +61 2 6125-5088</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> <BR></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> <BR></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> <BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>