[AG-TECH] HD on AG - Capture
Christoph Willing
c.willing at uq.edu.au
Tue Dec 16 17:43:43 CST 2008
On 17/12/2008, at 8:55 AM, Todd Zimmerman wrote:
> BTW, This card:
> http://www.ncast.com/DigiCaptureCard.html
>
> was suggested by someone on this list (can't recall who and the
> searchable archives are down - sorry!!)
I think that was from Hank at NCast.
> as a possible HD analog capture
> device. I plan on purchasing one soon (although the cost is approx
> $2k)
> with an EVI-HD1.
>
> Anyone used one of these before??
Not here but even $2K could be justified if they actually work. I
can't tell from their blurb (http://www.ncast.com/pdf/NCast-DS-DCC3.1.pdf
) what input connection is used for the HD. The DVI and composite
connectors are pretty clear in the diagram, but not the HD connector.
How do we plug in an HD camera Hank?
chris
> On Tue, 2008-12-16 at 16:32 -0600, Vine, Derek A wrote:
>> I should add that we plan on using Sony EVI HD1 cameras.
>>
>> --Derek
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ag-tech-bounces at lists.mcs.anl.gov
>> [mailto:ag-tech-bounces at lists.mcs.anl.gov] On Behalf Of Vine, Derek A
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 4:29 PM
>> To: Gurcharan S. Khanna; Luc Renambot
>> Cc: holub at ics.muni.cz; ag-tech
>> Subject: Re: [AG-TECH] HD on AG
>>
>> So just for some clarity, if I wanted to have 3 or 4 HD video streams
>> from Windows XP or Vista, what type of cards are supported/
>> recommended
>> and what changes need to be made to VIC?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Derek Vine
>> Communication Network Specialist
>> The University of South Dakota
>> 414 East Clark Street
>> Vermillion, SD 57069
>> (605) 677-8215
>> dvine at usd.edu
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ag-tech-bounces at lists.mcs.anl.gov
>> [mailto:ag-tech-bounces at lists.mcs.anl.gov] On Behalf Of Gurcharan S.
>> Khanna
>> Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 9:43 AM
>> To: Luc Renambot
>> Cc: holub at ics.muni.cz; ag-tech; Vine, Derek A
>> Subject: Re: [AG-TECH] HD on AG
>>
>> Luc,
>>
>> Yes, UltraGrid does work on Macs, but not mine :-(
>>
>> I've been working closely with Holub and team to get it working but
>> it's
>>
>> been a long struggle.
>> I think we'll get there but in the end, an integrated solution with
>> AG
>> is really what
>> I'd like, so I'm eager to try that path, too.
>>
>> -gurcharan
>>
>>
>> Luc Renambot wrote:
>>>
>>> On Dec 14, 2008, at 11:12 PM, Gurcharan S. Khanna wrote:
>>>
>>>> Doug,
>>>>
>>>> Really? Wow. You mean I can get vic to do uncompressed HD just like
>>>> that?
>>>> I've spent months trying to get UltraGrid to work on Macs (I got it
>>>> working on
>>>> colleagues machines but not mine!). But the goal was always to
>>>> integrate it with
>>>> the AG later. If this could be done now..........hmmmmmm....that
>>>> would be the
>>>> answer I've been waiting for.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I think the Ultragrid version from Csnet/ Masaryk univ. works on
>>> Mac:
>>> https://sitola.fi.muni.cz/igrid/index.php/UltraGrid
>>>
>>>
>>> Luc Renambot
>>> renambot at uic.edu Electronic Visualization Lab (M/C
>> 152)
>>> EVL Phone (312) 996-3002 University of Illinois at Chicago
>>> EVL FAX (312) 413-7585 851 S. Morgan St. Room 1120 SEO
>>> http://www.evl.uic.edu/luc Chicago, IL 60607-7053
>>> \
>>>
>>>> So, can somebody kind do this quickly and let me try it out? I
>>>> could
>>>> eventually
>>>> get someone to do this but it would be from scratch in terms of
>>>> their
>>
>>>> experience
>>>> with this software.
>>>>
>>>> If this works it would be so great and save so many hours of work
>>>> for
>>
>>>> me.
>>>>
>>>> Anyone?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks so much!
>>>>
>>>> -gurcharan
>>>>
>>>> Douglas Kosovic wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I, too, am extremely interested in vic supporting HD formats,
>>>>>>>>> (including uncompressed!) One of the issues is the encoding
>>>>>>>>> latency problem. Not sure there's a nice low latency encoding
>>>>>>>>> solution out there yet. Alternatively, we might look at cheap
>>>>>>>>> hardware encoders as the answer or HDMI cards to take the
>>>>>>>>> input
>>>>>>>>> from the camera.
>>>>>>>>> Can vic be made to take the output of, say, the BlackMagic
>>>>>>>>> Design HDMI card on a Mac?
>>>>>
>>>>> MacOS X UCL vic works out of the box with the BlackMagic Design
>>>>> HDMI
>>
>>>>> capture card, but gets scalled down to 640x480 for the large
>>>>> capture
>>
>>>>> option.
>>>>>
>>>>> A quick hack to add 1980x1080 support is to modify the following
>>>>> width & height lines in video/grabber-macosx.cpp :
>>>>> switch (decimate_) {
>>>>> case 1: // full-sized
>>>>> width_ = SP601_NTSC_WIDTH;
>>>>> height_ = SP601_NTSC_HEIGHT;
>>>>>
>>>>> to:
>>>>> width_ = 1920;
>>>>> height_ = 1080;
>>>>>
>>>>> Windows UCL vic on the other hand crashes with the BlackMagic
>>>>> Design
>>
>>>>> HDMI capture card as it currently doesn't support the BlackMagic
>>>>> YUV
>>
>>>>> colorspace.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wouldn't mind adding support for USB HD camcorders that support
>>>>> UVC (USB Video Class) H.264 streaming over USB, but I currently
>>>>> don't have access to one. Note: Not all USB based camcorders
>>>>> support
>>
>>>>> UVC (e.g. Sony Hanycams).
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am currently using AGDV under windows but would like to move
>>>>>>>>> to linux and use the HDV/DV linux vic for the DV part; i don't
>>>>>>>>> think it's encoding the HDV, just accepting it as input from
>>>>>>>>> the
>>
>>>>>>>>> camera already encoded??? [chris?]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is possible to just packetise the compressed data from a
>>>>>>>> camera, though as Chris points out it tends to have quite high
>>>>>>>> latency. That is why the ultragrid and derivatives used
>>>>>>>> uncompressed HD as their sources. VIC doesn't currently support
>>>>>>>> mpeg2 nor does support packetisation of an existing compressed
>>>>>>>> mpeg2 stream.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> wait, i thought chris' vic supported HDV, which i assume is
>>>>>>> mp4???
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> AFAIK most cameras support HDV - which is closely related to
>> MPEG-2:
>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDV#HDV_720p
>>>>>
>>>>> Mostly just the DV firewire based camcorders, the harddisk USB
>>>>> based
>>
>>>>> ones are now mostly AVCHD (MPEG-4 AVC/H.264).
>>>>>
>>>>>>> also, how hard/easy would it be for vic to support packetizing
>>>>>>> uncompressed HD?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not that hard - one needs to read the [RTP and codec] specs and
>>>>>> code it up - or borrow someone else's....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Piers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -gurcharan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Piers
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My ideal would be to encode the presenter's laptop output and
>>>>>>>>> deliver that as just another video stream along side the
>>>>>>>>> presenter's video and the audience video and have autoplace
>>>>>>>>> lay
>>>>>>>>> them out nicely in a framed window, a la Adobe Connect or
>>>>>>>>> similar products, so the presenter, the slides, and additional
>>>>>>>>> commentary could be nicely recorded for later videoon demand
>>>>>>>>> playback.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just my opinion (and need),
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -gurcharan
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Piers O'Hanlon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Derek,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In principle VIC should be able encode and decode HD video -
>>>>>>>>>> using one of the codecs that support such resolutions e.g.
>>>>>>>>>> H.264 or h261as.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> One needs to modify some of the configuration code in VIC to
>>>>>>>>>> allow selection of larger resolutions (ie HD one needs
>>>>>>>>>> something from 720p (1024x720) upwards). And of course an HD
>>>>>>>>>> source is necessary. We don't currently have access to any HD
>>>>>>>>>> kit so haven't had a chance to work on it but anyone is
>>>>>>>>>> welcome
>>
>>>>>>>>>> to try!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>> Piers
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2008/10/22 Vine, Derek A <Derek.Vine at usd.edu>:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am doing some research to spec. up a new AG room, and the
>>>>>>>>>>> group with the money is interested in HD video. I see that
>>>>>>>>>>> The University of Queensland has an HDV/DV VIC for Linux
>>>>>>>>>>> based
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> systems already, but we would like to stay with Windows.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I was just wondering what kind of time frame I can give them
>>>>>>>>>>> as to when HD will be supported in AG on Windows. In
>>>>>>>>>>> particular, an HD VIC that will take its video from a
>>>>>>>>>>> capture
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> card with an HD-SDI input, like the one attached in the PDF.
>>>>>
>>>>> I didn't see the PDF, what colorspace does it support? If it's YUV
>>>>> 4:2:0, it would probably work with this vic:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.vislab.uq.edu.au/ag3/windows/vic-20081121.zip
>>>>>
>>>>> (which contained a fix for 480i DV white line artifacts)
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, I started working on adding support for more colorspaces
>>>>> to
>>>>> the Windows code a few weeks ago and I might get back to working
>>>>> on
>>>>> the code soon.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you in advance for your help.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Derek Vine
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Communication Network Specialist
>>>>>>>>>>> The University of South Dakota
>>>>>>>>>>> 414 East Clark Street
>>>>>>>>>>> Vermillion, SD 57069
>>>>>>>>>>> (605) 677-8215
>>>>>>>>>>> dvine at usd.edu
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> -------------------------
>>>> Gurcharan S. Khanna, Ph.D.
>>>> Director of Research Computing
>>>> Office of the Vice President for Research
>>>> http://rc.rit.edu
>>>>
>>>> Assistant Research Professor, Ph.D. Program
>>>> Golisano College of Computing and Information Sciences
>>>> http://people.rit.edu/gskpop
>>>>
>>>> Director, Interactive Collaboration Environments Laboratory,
>>>> Center for the Advancing the Study of Cyberinfrastructure
>>>> http://icelab.rit.edu
>>>> ---
>>>> Rochester Institute of Technology
>>>> 1 Lomb Memorial Drive
>>>> Rochester, New York 14623-5603
>>>> Phone: 585-475-7504 ~ Cell: 585-451-8370
>>>> Email: gurcharan.khanna at rit.edu
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Douglas Kosovic wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I, too, am extremely interested in vic supporting HD formats,
>>>>>>>>> (including uncompressed!) One of the issues is the encoding
>>>>>>>>> latency problem. Not sure there's a nice low latency encoding
>>>>>>>>> solution out there yet. Alternatively, we might look at cheap
>>>>>>>>> hardware encoders as the answer or HDMI cards to take the
>>>>>>>>> input
>>>>>>>>> from the camera.
>>>>>>>>> Can vic be made to take the output of, say, the BlackMagic
>>>>>>>>> Design HDMI card on a Mac?
>>>>>
>>>>> MacOS X UCL vic works out of the box with the BlackMagic Design
>>>>> HDMI
>>
>>>>> capture card, but gets scalled down to 640x480 for the large
>>>>> capture
>>
>>>>> option.
>>>>>
>>>>> A quick hack to add 1980x1080 support is to modify the following
>>>>> width & height lines in video/grabber-macosx.cpp :
>>>>> switch (decimate_) {
>>>>> case 1: // full-sized
>>>>> width_ = SP601_NTSC_WIDTH;
>>>>> height_ = SP601_NTSC_HEIGHT;
>>>>>
>>>>> to:
>>>>> width_ = 1920;
>>>>> height_ = 1080;
>>>>>
>>>>> Windows UCL vic on the other hand crashes with the BlackMagic
>>>>> Design
>>
>>>>> HDMI capture card as it currently doesn't support the BlackMagic
>>>>> YUV
>>
>>>>> colorspace.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wouldn't mind adding support for USB HD camcorders that support
>>>>> UVC (USB Video Class) H.264 streaming over USB, but I currently
>>>>> don't have access to one. Note: Not all USB based camcorders
>>>>> support
>>
>>>>> UVC (e.g. Sony Hanycams).
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am currently using AGDV under windows but would like to move
>>>>>>>>> to linux and use the HDV/DV linux vic for the DV part; i don't
>>>>>>>>> think it's encoding the HDV, just accepting it as input from
>>>>>>>>> the
>>
>>>>>>>>> camera already encoded??? [chris?]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is possible to just packetise the compressed data from a
>>>>>>>> camera, though as Chris points out it tends to have quite high
>>>>>>>> latency. That is why the ultragrid and derivatives used
>>>>>>>> uncompressed HD as their sources. VIC doesn't currently support
>>>>>>>> mpeg2 nor does support packetisation of an existing compressed
>>>>>>>> mpeg2 stream.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> wait, i thought chris' vic supported HDV, which i assume is
>>>>>>> mp4???
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> AFAIK most cameras support HDV - which is closely related to
>> MPEG-2:
>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDV#HDV_720p
>>>>>
>>>>> Mostly just the DV firewire based camcorders, the harddisk USB
>>>>> based
>>
>>>>> ones are now mostly AVCHD (MPEG-4 AVC/H.264).
>>>>>
>>>>>>> also, how hard/easy would it be for vic to support packetizing
>>>>>>> uncompressed HD?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not that hard - one needs to read the [RTP and codec] specs and
>>>>>> code it up - or borrow someone else's....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Piers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -gurcharan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Piers
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My ideal would be to encode the presenter's laptop output and
>>>>>>>>> deliver that as just another video stream along side the
>>>>>>>>> presenter's video and the audience video and have autoplace
>>>>>>>>> lay
>>>>>>>>> them out nicely in a framed window, a la Adobe Connect or
>>>>>>>>> similar products, so the presenter, the slides, and additional
>>>>>>>>> commentary could be nicely recorded for later videoon demand
>>>>>>>>> playback.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just my opinion (and need),
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -gurcharan
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Piers O'Hanlon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Derek,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In principle VIC should be able encode and decode HD video -
>>>>>>>>>> using one of the codecs that support such resolutions e.g.
>>>>>>>>>> H.264 or h261as.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> One needs to modify some of the configuration code in VIC to
>>>>>>>>>> allow selection of larger resolutions (ie HD one needs
>>>>>>>>>> something from 720p (1024x720) upwards). And of course an HD
>>>>>>>>>> source is necessary. We don't currently have access to any HD
>>>>>>>>>> kit so haven't had a chance to work on it but anyone is
>>>>>>>>>> welcome
>>
>>>>>>>>>> to try!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>> Piers
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2008/10/22 Vine, Derek A <Derek.Vine at usd.edu>:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am doing some research to spec. up a new AG room, and the
>>>>>>>>>>> group with the money is interested in HD video. I see that
>>>>>>>>>>> The University of Queensland has an HDV/DV VIC for Linux
>>>>>>>>>>> based
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> systems already, but we would like to stay with Windows.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I was just wondering what kind of time frame I can give them
>>>>>>>>>>> as to when HD will be supported in AG on Windows. In
>>>>>>>>>>> particular, an HD VIC that will take its video from a
>>>>>>>>>>> capture
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> card with an HD-SDI input, like the one attached in the PDF.
>>>>>
>>>>> I didn't see the PDF, what colorspace does it support? If it's YUV
>>>>> 4:2:0, it would probably work with this vic:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.vislab.uq.edu.au/ag3/windows/vic-20081121.zip
>>>>>
>>>>> (which contained a fix for 480i DV white line artifacts)
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, I started working on adding support for more colorspaces
>>>>> to
>>>>> the Windows code a few weeks ago and I might get back to working
>>>>> on
>>>>> the code soon.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you in advance for your help.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Derek Vine
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Communication Network Specialist
>>>>>>>>>>> The University of South Dakota
>>>>>>>>>>> 414 East Clark Street
>>>>>>>>>>> Vermillion, SD 57069
>>>>>>>>>>> (605) 677-8215
>>>>>>>>>>> dvine at usd.edu
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> -------------------------
>>>> Gurcharan S. Khanna, Ph.D.
>>>> Director of Research Computing
>>>> Office of the Vice President for Research
>>>> http://rc.rit.edu
>>>>
>>>> Assistant Research Professor, Ph.D. Program
>>>> Golisano College of Computing and Information Sciences
>>>> http://people.rit.edu/gskpop
>>>>
>>>> Director, Interactive Collaboration Environments Laboratory,
>>>> Center for the Advancing the Study of Cyberinfrastructure
>>>> http://icelab.rit.edu
>>>> ---
>>>> Rochester Institute of Technology
>>>> 1 Lomb Memorial Drive
>>>> Rochester, New York 14623-5603
>>>> Phone: 585-475-7504 ~ Cell: 585-451-8370
>>>> Email: gurcharan.khanna at rit.edu
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> --
> Collaboration & Visualization Specialist
> UBC Okanagan - http://web.ubc.ca/okanagan
> WestGrid - www.westgrid.ca
> Ph. 250-807-9979
> Todd Zimmerman - todd.zimmerman at ubc.ca
Christoph Willing +61 7 3365 8316
QCIF Access Grid Manager
University of Queensland
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